8216;Jail was quite a shock to me8230; Gradually, I read the Ramayana, the Gita: Sanjay Dutt in 2007

Thank you, Shekhar.

8226; I8217;d have added one more adjective 8212; one of the most shy. Why so shy?

I have always been like that, very shy and quiet.

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I think I8217;m the chosen one8230; God puts you through tests like this and sees how you come out: Sanjay Dutt

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8226; Except while performing.

Absolutely. Otherwise, I8217;m pretty shy. I talk a little less. And journalists complain.

8226; I8217;m sure they do. In fact, even when I was preparing to chat with you, everybody told me, 8216;He doesn8217;t talk.8217;

No, no. We8217;ll talk today.

8226; And walk your talk.

Yes sir.

8226; These have been tough times for you. How do you cope?

I believe in God. I believe in my family, myself. I believe in the people of my country. And when I look around, I see that so many people love me.

8226; You believe in the judiciary?

Absolutely. Total belief in the judiciary.

8226; What8217;s your day like? When do doubts assail you in the course of a day? And what do you do when doubts hit you?

Nothing. I8217;m so busy with my work. I get up, have my breakfast and I am off for shooting and things like that. And you know it8217;s such a creative world that we don8217;t have time for doubt. I mean, it8217;s like we don8217;t have time for doubts, we are always in the scene, or we are improvising, or we are trying to do something better. The day goes by like that. Then I come back and I go to my gym. I work out. Be with my family after that.

8226; And does worry cross your mind at some point?

Yes. I8217;m a human being. I pray to God a lot, and I just have faith.

8226; So what happens? Do you get a fright sometimes? A cold sweat, if, God forbid, I have to go back again through the last 18 months . . .

Yes, sometimes it happens, it does happen. Then, just like I said, I really believe in the Almighty. I believe in the judiciary of our country. I believe in the people of my country. And it makes me feel better.

8226; But the fact is, at least, the charge of terrorism is off your head.

Yes. It8217;s a great relief. And I wish my father were alive to hear those words. That8217;s what he wanted to hear.

8226; When your father was around, I8217;m sure these worries were still there. I8217;m sure you asked your father what to do. How did he advise you?

You know, that8217;s what we miss in Dad. He was such a pillar of strength. He just stood by there like a rock. I mean, I8217;d lean on him. I knew he8217;d just say, 8216;Son, I8217;m there.8217; That8217;s one thing we all miss a lot.

8226; Do you remember some conversation when he said something to you that stays with you?

No, he used to just hold me, he used to give me so much strength. We really miss him.

8226; Even when you were in jail, he was visiting you.

Yes.

8226; And what did he say to you? You were obviously distraught.

He said truth will prevail one day. And, 8216;I am there.8217;

8226; Did he ever have doubts?

No

8226; Never? He never got irritated? 8216;Why are you in this mess?8217;

No, he said, 8216;I know you8217;re not.8217;

8226; But there were times when he was helpless. He pleaded with everybody on your behalf.

I haven8217;t seen that part, because I was not there. But yes, I heard he did all that.

8226; He went to Balasaheb Thackeray.

Yes.

8226; You felt for him? Someone as proud as him had to do this . . .

Of course, I felt for him. I did.

8226; And now he8217;d have been happy?

Yes, he would have been very happy.

8226; A jail sentence is one thing, but a jail sentence for terrorism is something else.

Yes, it8217;s absolutely right. Like I say, God is great. And things are good.

8226; Things have been good for you this year. You8217;ve got Munnabhai second and this.

Yes.

8226; But you know there8217;s this very interesting contradictory thing 8212; one side of your personality is this case, which has now gone on for one-and-half decades, and you hit the headlines for something like Munnabhai. Life is bittersweet.

It is. But Munnabhai is great. I mean it8217;s a total turnaround in my career. It8217;s such a great character today. And specially Circuit with him. Have you seen?

8226; Yes. I hope you know, how many dogs in this country have been named Circuit! The country8217;s favourite sidekick now.

Absolutely. But Munnabhai came along, and Raju is such a soft director.

8226; Raju Hirani.

I used to wonder in the first schedule that, 8216;Matlab, kya baana raha hai, what8217;s he making?8217; Because he was too soft. But then, as time went by, I just knew he8217;s making landmark Hindi films 8212; Munnabhai MBBS and Lage Raho Munnabhai 8212; to spread the message of the great Mahatma Gandhi in such a beautiful way.

8226; But given the complications you were carrying in your life, you weren8217;t hesitant playing a gangster again, picking up the gangster language? You did Vaastav shortly before your incarceration. This never bothered you?

No, it didn8217;t bother me because Munnabhai is a lovable gangster.

8226; Right.

Munnabhai wants to become a doctor. Munnabhai wants to spread the word of Gandhiji. And what Gandhiji taught, I think, everybody has forgotten, and he revived it. Total Gandhigiri, peace, and all those things.

8226; Tell me, when you were in jail, did you ever read about Gandhi? Did your father ever talk about Gandhi? Did you ever think about peace, because Arthur Road Jail is a tough jail. It8217;s not full of nice guys.

No, absolutely.

8226; No jail is full of nice people, but Arthur Road in particular . . .

No, no. My father was a Gandhian himself. He believed in what Gandhiji said. And we all have been raised like that. Anju, Priya, and me. Definitely, it made a big difference.

8226; Sanjay, knowing where you are and where we are, it8217;s a tough journey. I know you can8217;t talk too much about your tenure in jail in the merit of the case. But just tell me a little bit about your 18 months in jail. Some things that remain imprinted on your memory.

Well, to be honest with you, it was quite a shock to me initially. But then, gradually, I started reading a lot. And I started praying a lot. I read the Ramayana, I read the Gita. And I have read a lot of books in jail. And I have been just meeting interesting people. I mean just sitting and eating food, things like that. But I used to pray a lot. Hell of a lot!

8226; But is that how you discovered the spirituality in you? Because you were never this religious before.

No, I have been a religious person from before. Always go to mandir. I also have a mandir at home. But I never sat down and got to read.

8226; And you are from a mixed religion family.

Yes. But I never got to read the Ramayana and everything, though my father used to tell me. But now I have read all those books and I think it8217;s just brilliant.

8226; But it was a tough experience.

It8217;s tough for anybody. It8217;s a very tough experience.

8226; Were there times you said to your father, 8216;I give up, I can8217;t handle it8217;? You were a very spoilt child.

No, I have never said that because I used to see my father feeling so upset. I used to see tears in his eyes. So I8217;d put on a front and tell him, 8216;It8217;s okay. Everything will fall in place over time.8217; But dad used to get upset.

8226; So he was more upset than you?

No, I was upset, but I had to tell him. You know, if I started having tears in my eyes with him, he would have been just broken.

8226; Right. But Sanjay, you had a tough time from childhood.

Yes.

8226; Take us back to that.

It starts with my Mom.

8226; Mom8217;s sickness?

Yes, the detection of cancer. That whole journey to America and those days, they weren8217;t as advanced as they are now. And again I saw my father struggling, and my mother struggled to survive. We were just kids. And she went through major surgery. We saw how she was. I was big enough to realise. Priya was small. And then, eventually, we got her down and she passed away, and that was another big shock to all of us, specially to Dad. He lost his life partner. He had to raise us three and he raised us brilliantly. He was everything to us 8212; a mother, a father, a friend, he was everything to us. That was one. And then came my drugs phase. Again, that was a bad phase of nine years. And my father struggled for me.

8226; Tell me a bit about that. How did that begin and how did that end?

Well, it began with friends, and I can8217;t blame my mother8217;s death.

8226; No excuses.

No excuses. It was friends, and I want to try something. I mean, it just became more and more every day.

8226; And as with most addicts, one moment of weakness does it.

That does it! Till one day, I went up to my father and told him, 8216;You have to help me out.8217;

8226; You confessed to your father?

Yes, I did. I just didn8217;t like myself. And I told Dad, 8216;You got to help me,8217; and he said, 8216;Okay.8217; And he took me to Breach Candy Hospital. I was put there. Then he flew me straight to the US. And I was in treatment for a year-and-a-half.

8226; In Texas, I believe.

In Mississippi. And there8217;s no looking back after that.

8226; What was life like in rehab?

It was very nice, because we were about 60 people.

8226; Various age groups?

Various age groups, who all had a similar problem with different drugs. The problem was similar and we helped each other a lot, trying to get out of it. There was a lot of therapy work, in which you had to talk about your problem. They really get you to the core of what really got you into this There was a lot of therapy, there were a lot of games we use to play, trips to the lakeside. Just to introduce us to the world in a very slow way. And for me, when I used to see other families laughing and boating and doing all that, I used to wish I could be like them. I didn8217;t want this life of mine. I wanted to laugh and enjoy life and be high on life. And that8217;s what happened. God is great, and I8217;m really out of it!

8226; It took a year-and-a-half?

Yes, in rehab.

8226; Do they allow visitors?

No. No one was allowed to visit.

8226; For the whole period?

They were allowed to visit only once in that whole period, and then in the end they were allowed to come and take me away.

8226; But they fixed you nice and permanently?

Permanently.

8226; Is that the reason that you do lot of work with children with drug problems?

Yes. This is one of the major reasons. You see, when they talk, I can relate to their talk and I can put some sense into them. Just sit and talk to them and get their emotions out.

8226; Can you give some examples or some conversations you have had with children?

Well, there was one a couple of years ago. His parents said, 8216;Pease talk to him.8217; And they got him, and he was totally on drugs. So I said, 8216;Put your face up and tell me.8217; He tells me, 8216;No, no, no, I8217;m not on drugs.8217; I started talking to him about my own experience and in about 30 minutes he broke down. He told me, 8216;How do I get out of this?8217; I just told him, 8216;If you need counseling, I8217;m there. Get out of it. But you have got to get out of it. I can help you get out of it.8217; And today he8217;s absolutely fine. He8217;s working and doing well.

8226; You could send him to Mississippi. But a lot of street children are into drugs, particularly smack.

Yes.

8226; What happens to them?

Well, I8217;m affiliated to this organisation called Support, which helps street children. But that organisation is not recognised as much. Next time, I8217;ll take you to the centre and you will see six-year-olds, 10-year-olds, 12-, 14-year-olds who are full blown drug addicts. We must rehabilitate them.

8226; But the facilities they have over here must be a far cry from that centre in Mississippi?

Absolutely. This one8217;s in Amboli. It8217;s in shambles. I think the environment for rehab should be away from the city. It should be in a beautiful place where you rehabilitate these children, talk to them, and then, you know, send them into education.

8226; Were there times when you wanted to run away. You tried to run away?

I never tried. They took my passport away. But yes, I definitely wanted to run away. My counsellor was a person called Jack McCombe. It8217;s a spiritual programme. He used to counsel us. I just had to get out of this. So I went to him and said, 8216;I had a dream last night.8217; 8216;Yes, tell me what dream you had?8217; I said, 8216;I don8217;t know, somebody in white came to me and said, 8220;Sanjay you are ready to go.8221;8217; So I said, 8216;Jack, I don8217;t know who it was.8217; So he looked and he told me, 8216;Sanjay, that was God. And did he tell you8217;re going to be here for a year and a half?8217; They are all ex-addicts working in the centre there. They know exactly what is happening with the patients.

8226; You had tried to play tricks with them, and they caught you.

I8217;d tried this one.

8226; You have any pleasant memories of those one-and-a-half years? Something that taught you something?

When they used to take us out to the world slowly, I used to see a lot of happiness, a lot of people getting high on life, on work 8212; people not hiding any more. And I really wanted to be like them. I didn8217;t want to hide any more. I wanted to laugh. I wanted to sit with my father, my sisters, and be normal, instead of every two moments running into the bathroom. And I think that turned it around for me.

To be concluded