Everything has gone back many years

As a child, I remember everybody used to wait for the yatra, even children would sometimes help to carry things. Suddenly, things changed with General Sinha: he sent a proposal to Mufti saab, asking for some hundred kanals of land. He wanted to extend the yatra period to two months. But the administration of the two districts gets totally involved in the yatra and the security forces are taxed, so Mufti saab tried to put down his foot. Unfortunately, the Congress played politics 8212; ministers from Jammu threatened to resign. The Central Government intervened and finally Mufti saab agreed to extend the yatra to 45 days. That8217;s where the controversy began.

And then in 2005, we found that without taking the Cabinet into confidence or going through the state Conservation Act, the Governor wrote to a senior officer demanding the land. The officer put up the case to the concerned minister. According to the state Forest Conservation act, any diversion of forest land needs clearance by the Forest Advisory Committee. This was not done. When Mufti saab learnt of it, he realised that apart from environmental repercussions, this could cause a flare up. So he revoked the order.

The SASB went to court. Interestingly, even though all cases related to Kashmir division are supposed to be heard in the Kashmir court, this was transferred to Jammu. And the lawyer who was defending the SASB became the judge. Every consideration was ignored and the SASB got an order in their favour. We filed a plea against it, but after the transfer of power to the Congress, General Sinha started acting as a parallel power centre. He pursued the land case.

I was in Delhi when Muzaffar Hussain Baig PDP called me to say that the land issue had been brought up again in a Cabinet meeting and he had rejected it. So on June 3 my father and I were taken aback when the government transferred 800 kanals of land to the SASB. PDP ministers said they had rejected the proposal many times, but Ghulam Nabi Azad argued that General Sinha was due to retire and only wanted the land for two months. He added many riders saying there would not be any environmental impact nor any permanent construction. He persuaded everybody.

Only once has Ghulam Nabi Azad justified his order. A few months ago, he took a team of experts with him to Baltal, base camp of the Amarnath pilgrimage, to identify the areas where tents and toilets could be set up. They selected the land at various places. Azad always says it was the PDP8217;s proposal 8212; here he admitted he himself identified the places. At this stage, people protested about damage to the environment. Although until June 13, there was no public statement from us opposing Azad8217;s order, once people started to protest Mufti saab asked Baig to tell Azad to revoke it.

8226;Seema Chishti: When did this happen?

Mehbooba Mufti: Around June 6 or 7. I was there when Baig saab called Azad and said, 8220;Mufti saab is saying the situation will get worse if it goes on like this. Why don8217;t you let the government provide the facilities as was done earlier?8221; Azad agreed, so we said nothing. The National Conference NC refused to buy the temporary transfer theory but we tried to defend it. The media blamed the PDP for raking up the issue, but it was the NC that on June 4 started the whole thing and then the Hurriyat followed suit.

Then came the statement from the SASB that the diversion of land is not temporary but permanent. They said nobody can stop us. Baig told Azad to ask the chief executive officer of the SASB to clarify that this was not a permanent diversion. But Azad didn8217;t say anything.

8226;Seema Chishti: Would that have changed your stance?

Mehbooba Mufti: He put all the blame on us. nbsp;He was enjoying the PDP being downgraded.

8226;Suman K Jha: In an interview to The Indian Express, Azad said that he revoked the order primarily because of separatist propaganda.

Mehbooba Mufti: The truth is Mufti saab was not against the transfer just because of the environment but because he could foresee the consequences. Unfortunately, Azad thought a reaction in the Valley would help consolidate his position in Jammu which has 35 Assembly seats.

8226;Unni Rajen Shanker: Are you saying Azad was the problem?

Mehbooba Mufti: It8217;s not about Azad. Maybe he did not understand the problem. Maybe he has been working in Maharashtra, Karnataka, Bihar so long, he thought it8217;s like any other state. Maybe he thought if we talk about development and corruption everything will be okay.

8226;Suman K Jha: You do not have a problem with the diversion of land per se?

Mehbooba Mufti: No, I do have a problem with that because the land is already with them.

8226;Suman K Jha: Two high court orders in the state say that there should be a temporary diversion of land. If the government does not follow them, it8217;s contempt of court. Today, the Sangharsh Samiti is saying that they would be content with a temporary diversion. The NC is open to the idea, so is Azad. Why do you have a problem?

Mehbooba Mufti: The order of the High Court is against the ruling of the Supreme Court, it8217;s against the Forest Conservation Act. It has not been cleared by the State Advisory Committee.

Our problem is that Azad tried to consolidate his base in Jammu and become a hero in the country. L K Advani8217;s statement in Jammu that the whole country is behind Ghulam Nabi Azad8217;s decision added fuel to the fire. Let8217;s be clear: until now, the controversy surrounds the SASB. The yatra per se is not controversial. Even when the situation was bad in Kashmir, the yatra continued. Do you know these 800 kanals are already with the Shrine Board? Unfortunately, the SASB has been made into something bigger than the country. Now, the Kashmiris are pushed to one side and the SASB and country is on the other. Today, even if there is an agreement between the NC, PDP, Congress and others, we may not be in a position to solve the crisis because the issue has gone beyond the yatra. So I said to the Centre: nbsp;please revoke this order, otherwise it8217;s not going to be 800 karnals but 80,000 karnals.

8226;Coomi Kapoor:nbsp;You say the land is not an issue as they8217;ve already had use of the land. So why are you making this such an issue?

Mehbooba Mufti: It8217;s an issue with the people. nbsp;The situation is out of control. Mainstream parties have been pushed to the wall.

8226;Suman K Jha: When the all-party delegation went to Srinagar, people say you left the delegation, you went back to Srinagar to mobilise the truck drivers to march to Muzaffarabad. Do you want to occupy the main political space on this issue to help you return to power?

Mehbooba Mufti: I8217;m flattered that you think I8217;m so powerful. As for the Muzaffarabad march, it8217;s long been on our agenda. We took a rally to Uri in 2004 and lost 13 people. In nbsp;2005, the road was opened. Since then we8217;ve said that we need to start trade with PoK along that route. When the economic blockade was announced, Baig saab was the first to say that the blockade would force Kashmiri people to turn to Pakistan.

When the all-party delegation went to Jammu, the Sangharsh Samiti refused to talk to us. They wanted no Kashmiri in the delegation. So I left. In Srinagar I got a call from the fruit growers, etc. They said they had heard that Farooq Abdullah and I had been pushed out, so they would boycott the meeting with the delegation. I said no, you have to be there to put forward your viewpoint. In Srinagar, they waited for two hours and then left in disgust. I supported the stand of the fruit growers that if the economic blockade was not lifted they would nbsp;march on the Muzaffradbad road. This is not an illegal route, it was opened by our own Prime Minister.

8226;Suman K Jha: According to the Home Ministry, there was never any economic blockade. The national highways were blocked for only one day.

Mehbooba Mufti: If there is no blockade, why is the Army still on the highway? And it8217;s not just about the blockade, it8217;s about the impact on the psyche of the people. If we say there was no blockade, we8217;ll be fooling ourselves. There8217;s a saying 8212; the pigeon says if I8217;ll close my eyes the cat will run away. It will not.

The situation was very bad in J038;K when the coalition government was formed under Mufti saab. We had a commitment from Congress that it would support us and they did. We revoked POTA, we released Syed Geelani and Yasin Malik.

Today, you have a Geelani who addresses a 55-lakh crowd. Today, if you are hearing them chant 8216;azadi then something has gone wrong. While we were in charge, for the first time mainstream politicians got space, their credibility was restored. Vajpayee came to Srinagar, there was ceasefire on the borders. Then we started talking about the Muzaffarabad road. But once Mufti saab left, Confidence Building Measures CBMs did not continue. The reduction of troops should have been a natural consequence once there was an improvement in the situation. Why did it need militant parties to demand it? The Army has been in Jammu barely 15 days and our Congress colleagues are complaining about a siege. When we say that, we are accused of being anti-national.

8226;Ritu Sarin: What needs to be done now to resolve the situation?

Mehbooba Mufti: You have to find a middle path. If you want the status quo of the borders to be maintained then the internal status quo has to change. Kashmir vis-agrave;-vis Delhi, between the two Kashmirs. You can8217;t say everything8217;s going to be fine by economic packages or by suppression. We have been appeasing them for the last 60 years with economic packages.

8226;Manu Pubby: If you have a plebiscite in the Valley today, which way would they go? nbsp;Would they choose independence over Pakistan?

Mehbooba Mufti: It8217;s anybody8217;s guess. The anti-India feeling is at its peak. I think Delhi, as usual, thought everything is hunky-dory in Kashmir, we8217;ll give packages, make a bridge. We warned them this semblance of normalcy is superficial. Now the Hurriyat is on a wave. People say it8217;s like everything has gone back to 1947.

8226;Dheeraj Nayar: You seem to be very bitter about the Congress?

Mehbooba Mufti: It8217;s only because of the Congress leadership in Delhi that we were trying to pull together. When it came to a reduction of troops, the PM formed the committees and some movement was there. Even Mrs Gandhi wrote a letter continuing with the healing touch policy. I have been telling people in Kashmir that it8217;s the Government of India that can give us something, not the other side.

8226;Seema Chishti: What is your reading of Geelani and his leadership?

Mehbooba Mufti: I think he8217;s seen as the tallest leader today, because of his tough stance. There is this anger and upsurge which he seems to represent. But after some time people would definitely like a more moderate voice. People would like to see results and that you can only have with a moderate. My advice to the Government is if we want to bring down this upsurge, let8217;s go about the Muzaffarabad road in an offensive manner.

8226;Saubhik Chakravarti: The Muzafarrabad highway will be a very big symbolic gesture for the Valley. What8217;s the big gesture for Jammu?

Mehbooba Mufti: nbsp;A dialogue has to be started between the Action Committee and the Sangarsh Samiti. I think it8217;s best if the Sangharsh Samiti, if they are not playing politics, comes and sees for itself the conditions for the yatris. It8217;s not that any injustice has been done to Jammu. They say that Hindu sentiments have been hurt. But yatris were not stopped, no one was hurt, roads weren8217;t blocked.

8226;Raj Kamal Jha: Do you think that in the next few weeks, given the volatile situation, the Centre can talk about these big CBMs without talking about the land issue?

Mehbooba Mufti: If the priority of the Government is to save J038;K then its priority has to be the Valley first. Otherwise if you had five lakh yesterday you may have 10 lakh, if you let the situation drift.

8226;Raj Kamal Jha: Has the space for mainstream politics shrunk in the last one month?

Mehbooba Mufti: Everything has gone back many years. nbsp;Mainstream parties are nowhere in the reckoning today. Today, some separatists are saying what we have been saying, whether it8217;s trade or reduction of troops.

8226;Raj Kamal Jha: In the last 18 years there has not been a single CBM with a gun held to the head of Delhi. How do you expect the Centre to say we will open the road when there are 10 lakh people on the streets?

Mehbooba Mufti: There is no gun at Delhi8217;s head today. People are not carrying guns. How do you justify to the world 10 lakh people marching, and youngsters saying come shoot us or give us independence?

8226;Abhineet Mishra: When can we expect the elections in Kashmir?

Mehbooba Mufti: I don8217;t think anybody8217;s thinking of elections at this juncture. The priority is to restore some kind of normalcy.

Transcribed by Preeti Jha