Uma Bharti interview: ‘We’ve no copyright on Ram Bhakti… I’ll tell Oppn this, to rid yourself of fear, attend event. And also to BJP, to rid itself of arrogance’

In a freewheeling conversation with The Indian Express, Bharti discusses the Ram Temple movement days before she heads to Ayodhya to attend the consecration ceremony of the Ram Lalla idol on January 22.

How did you get associated with the Ram Janmabhoomi movement?

When I was 12, I went to Ayodhya to give religious discourses. I used to give discourses on Ramayan and Mahabharat as a child. Mahant Ram Chandra Das took me there for a discourse when I was a child. I saw a lock there and also saw prayers taking place. I asked him why there was a lock there. He told me the temple was broken long ago. Now, with court orders, there is a lock but prayers are also allowed outside. I felt very bad. That memory stayed with me.

In 1984, a VHP-related agitation – Zor se bolo, Ram Janmabhoomi ka taala kholo (Speak up, unlock Ram Janmabhoomi) – began there. By that time, I had entered politics. I was asked to participate in the agitation and I did.

What are your memories of the movement once it picked steam in the late 1980s?

When the locks opened, I took part in the shilanyas (laying of foundation stone) in September 1989. Then there was a meeting in Mathura and the date of kar seva (volunteer work for the temple) was announced as October 31, 1990. VP Singh ji as PM was confused, sometimes agreeing with us and sometimes with the Communists, who, like us, were supporting his government from the outside. Mulayam Singh Yadav said, ‘Parinda par bhi nahin maar paayega (even a bird will not be able to fly past Ayodhya)’. I went with Rajmata Vijayaraje Scindia for the kar seva but she was detained and sent to Chinar jail and I was held in a Banda guest house. The kar seva happened on October 31 and Ashok Singhal ji got injured in police action. We saw this news on Doordarshan. I felt agitated that we went around asking people to join the kar seva, and now they were facing bullets and I was sitting like a VIP in the guest house.

I tonsured my head, made a quick plan with some people, and left for Ayodhya when it was under curfew. I reached Ayodhya and was asked to lead a jattha (group) of the November 2 kar seva. Some people of our jattha wandered away by mistake. Two of them, Ram Kumar and Sohit Kumar Kothari, were killed by the police. They had taken a shortcut towards Hanuman Garhi in curfew conditions and were shot dead.

The group I was leading was baton-charged and tear-gassed. CRPF women physically carried me away and I was thrown in Faizabad jail. The next day, local women surrounded the jail. Then I was transferred to Naini jail. The movement continued. Ashok Singhal was insistent about not stopping it. The December 6, 1992, kar seva was announced.

What are your memories of December 6?

Such a huge crowd gathered on December 5 that I expressed apprehension to a senior of mine that all these are not our co-workers. Many are Ram Bhakts, they may not be in our control. He told me not to worry. On the morning of December 6, Acharya Dharmendra asked Ritambhara ji and me to go to the podium as the crowds were swelling. There was a building about half a kilometre from Ram Janmabhoomi, but from there the spot was visible. The podium was atop that building. (Murli Manohar) Joshi ji, (L K) Advani ji, Rajmata Vijayaraje Scindia were there. We were asked to speak one after the other. Coincidentally, when I was speaking, I saw kar sevaks climbing the structure. I stopped. I was standing and could see them. Others were sitting and could not. I told the others that kar sevaks had climbed the structure. Advani ji appealed to them over the microphone to come down. But such were the cries of ‘Jai Shri Ram’ that none listened.

Advani ji told me to go there from the route starting from behind the building, saying people listen to me. He also told the additional SP posted there, Anju Gupta, his own aide Deepak Chopra, and Pramod Mahajan to accompany me. We went in a car and the crowd surrounded us. They shouted at me, asking me why I was going to Ram Janmabhoomi. The mother of the Kothari brothers, who had been shot dead by police two years earlier, also confronted me, saying this structure killed her sons and must go. I pleaded that discipline was needed; she shot back that the Babri structure had to be demolished. The kar sevaks physically lifted me and left me at the podium. We soon heard that the Kalyan Singh government had been dismissed and paramilitary forces had gathered in larger numbers. I stayed there. The Babri Masjid had come down. Rajmata told me to take her there. There were just piles of rubble. I saw that CRPF jawans had taken off their shoes and were doing pranam to Ram Lalla. I was surprised. Rajmata and I touched our heads to the ground.

Who do you think was most active in the movement?

The first credit goes to the kar sevaks who demolished the structure that day. That is why the Archaeological Survey of India could excavate the place. They found remnants of old structures beneath. The Supreme Court considered the findings. The ones responsible for bringing down the structure were the kar sevaks. But we — Advani ji, myself and others — were chargesheeted in 2017. We were named as accused and turned into criminals. But I did not worry at all. I wanted to die that very day if firing had taken place on the kar sevaks to save them. When finally Modi ji as PM attended the shilanyas that happened in Ayodhya, the way he did it without any Hindu-Muslim rancour taking place made us hold our heads high in the world. The world had seen India in terms of caste and religious disputes. The way Modi ji as PM, Amit Shah ji as Home Minister, and Yogi (Adityanath) ji as CM conducted themselves made us proud. I give them credit for that. That sense of national unity has not allowed any tensions to be generated to date on Ram Janmabhoomi.

The 1990-’92 period saw riots and people being killed. What is your take? Should bloodshed not have been avoided?

After the 2010 Allahabad High Court verdict no riot happened. After the Supreme Court verdict of 2019, no riot took place. When the Prime Minister attended the shilanyas after that, no riot took place. Now that the inauguration is about to happen, there is no tension or fear. This means that the Congress had with full planning created a situation of division in 1990-’92 to create fear. Also, the Communists hate Hindus and want Hindus and Muslims to fight. Riots don’t happen, they are made to happen. Hindus and Muslims can live in peace.

The bricks being used in the construction of the temple have ‘Shri Ram’ engraved on them. (Express Photo by Chitral Khambhati)

What do you think about the invitations to Opposition leaders, industrialists, celebrities, etc, for January 22? Should Opposition leaders have been invited?

Invitations are a decision of the (Ram Temple) Trust and not a political call. We have no copyright on Ram Bhakti. Bhagwan Ram and Hanuman ji are not BJP leaders. They are our national honour. In the pran pratishtha of their Mandir, anyone can take part and anyone can be invited. I will also tell all politicians – don’t see this politically. Even at your homes, there are photos of Ram; in your names, there may be Ram. Attend it. Don’t be afraid that you will lose votes. And I will also tell BJP members – rid yourself of the arrogance that only you can do bhakti of Ram. I will tell the Opposition – rid yourself of the fear that you must not go there. Free of arrogance or fear, we should all take part happily.

There have also been demands relating to Kashi and Mathura. What are your views?

My view is the same as what I had said in Parliament in 1991 when the Bill to keep Ayodhya out of the religious places whose nature should not be changed from what it was at independence had been brought (Places of Worship Act). I had said add Kashi and Mathura also as exceptions to it so that coming generations live in peace.

Are you going to Ayodhya on January 22?

The Trust has ordered me to be in Ayodhya on January 18 and not wait until January 22. They had also called me in December. I went there and did whatever work they gave me. I will be in Ayodhya from January 18.