‘The child in me has not left me’

I said clutter-breaker because you are not a one-movie wonder,either as director or as actor. Second,you not just make movies about children,but also act the bad guy,a loveable bad guy in a way.

I’ve taken a cue from thespian Nilu Phule. He played Amitabh Bachchan’s father in Coolie. A strong socialist,he has always fought for the cause of the poor. And he’s been a baddie on screen. So this dichotomy also suits me.

But you are not a babe who’s being written about in 10 pages of a film magazine.

I think the child in me has not yet left me.

In your 50th year?

I would like to preserve it till death. And that’s what I am. On a daily basis,there is no programme. If there was no teacher in a child’s life and no school,what would be the child?

If there was no child in a teacher’s life,or no school in a parent’s life,what would be a parent or a teacher?

Grown-ups don’t understand a child’s value in their life. They are always talking down to them. The curriculum is always force-fed. Where is the child? I am not brushing with a wide stroke. There are definitely teachers… there is Nikumbh. He was my teacher. There was Namvar Singh,he was my Hindi teacher. I meet him on every September 5.

You are a writer-actor who is actually getting people interested. That’s why we had to start recording early in the morning,so we don’t get crowds.

I’m overwhelmed. That’s not what I set out for. I am an outsider. I have an agenda. I am a 30-year student of cinema. I need to infuse purpose into cinema to make it captivating for the viewer.

You said agenda — describe that agenda.

Number one is childhood. This whole childhood has been skewed because of the way we live. Look at this Mumbai skyline. How many children are trapped in those little houses? We are not questioning the sociological reality of whether or not it is healthy to live in such an inhabitation. Where are the villages?

Where is the community?

There is no community. There is no equation with the next-door neighbour.

The club can’t be the community.

The club is for yourself. That’s mighty selfish.

But parents are investing more time,money,emotion so that their children achieve more.

What is that achievement?

Essentially,better coaching,tutors…

Ask the poor child. Parents stand at the end of the swimming pool or the skating rink and shout as if they were possessed,‘Go,go’. What’s wrong with you? It is a sport. So you’re building that sport into a competitive thing just as you’re building academics as a competitive thing. Why play one against the other? Children are becoming frightfully doubtful about the other person.

You worked with your son in Stanley Ka Dabba. That’s also competitive. What were you shouting from the edge of the skating rink?

I don’t work with children. I spend a wonderful time with them. I would like to have that relationship with not just Partho,my son. I have many sons and daughters because we all now have Saturday parties…

You do these workshops for children…

Not workshops — no work and no shop. It’s sessions on cinema,theatre,art,watching Iranian films,watching Chaplin,and taking them as wonderful textbooks. I’m trying to bring cinema,which is just a century-plus art,into the curriculum of the nation because it is not rocket science. You don’t have to wait till postgrad to get a degree or diploma in cinema. Once children start viewing the world of cinema,they won’t accept the trite and the trivial.

For all that was trivialised in Bollywood, children were trivialised the most.

Adults are poor copiers of life. The child is imitating 100 per cent. You can’t say bloody child,acting like this. It’s the bloody director telling the child,beta aise karo,beta waise karo.

Children were made to look like the father of man in movies…Bachche mann ke sachche, saare jag ke aankh ke taare…

Itni badi badi baatein bachche kaise bolte hain?

Aapke bachche ne aap se kya kaha while you were making Stanley Ka Dabba?

He terrorises me because he knows he has the right of way. In our house,from the day he gained consciousness,he is consulted for every meal — breakfast,lunch and dinner,what goes in his tiffin box. Once he gets it on the plate,he will not refuse it,because he has asked for it. So there is a certain democracy,with which he can pull my beard or give me a tight slap.

What is the most interesting thing he said — the most childlike yet most perceptive?

When he was about two years old and I was talking like a baby,he looked at me and said,‘But that’s stupid’. I took the cue from him. Adults don’t take cues. Children are giving cues all the time —stop dumbing us down. I got a fine cue. He’s all of 10 now and spunky…

What are the interesting things other children you’ve worked with have said to you?

There is a degree of weakness that I express to a child on day one. I call myself a bullfrog. Mendhak chacha. Mendhak kaka. Froggie. Aapka size bahut chhota ho jaata hai in front of the child. Then they talk their heart out to you. And the idea is not to betray that heart.

Children we deal with are usually our children. We look like this (looks down) on them,and not like this (looks up) at them.

Why? I wonder. Because when somebody went and said the child is the father of man,why can’t you take the cue from your literature,from your wise human beings?

Too few great filmmakers in India have worked with children. Satyajit Ray had Apu. Abbas Kiarostami talks about what he learns from children. What is it that you learn from them?

I have learnt a lot from Abbas Kiarostami’s cinema,from (Majid) Majidi’s cinema and Iranian cinema. It’s like nursery rhymes. You want to talk about Humpty Dumpty who sat on a wall and had a great fall. Humpty Dumpty did have a name but you don’t want to say it because you’ll go behind bars. You have to cloak it. Otherwise you can’t make films like Jafar Panahi.

Is some of that necessary in India?

India’s a free country,everybody’s doing what they are doing,the chasm between the rich and the poor is increasing.

But the ambitions of the rich and the poor are converging. The poor also want their children to go to IIM,IIT,or Harvard.

That is being made possible by the sheer swimming strength of the child. If the child can swim the channel,he or she can achieve that dream. But if there is no easy access for all to the same knowledge,there is a problem.

When a school charges Rs 9 lakh per child a year,what are you giving there? Gold biscuits or what? Would a taxi driver go there? Would he get space there? He won’t. The truth is that ours is a 5,000-year-old culture. And the richest of the rich in India,the emperors,and their children went,dhaaga baandh ke,to the forest,jao,guru ki seva karo,and what you get is knowledge. Then you learn to treasure it. A Rs 9-lakh-a-year child is going to say (clicking his fingers) – like in the Marriott – geography lao. Coffee lao. It’s the same thing. I don’t know how sturdy that model would be. And bechara guru jo hai,woh middle-class reh chuka hai. Aur uska shishya,woh upper class ka hai. So the equation has shifted.

You,Taare Zameen Par and Aamir Khan. Will you set the record straight?

The record is perfectly straight. I’ll tell you one thing,and I mean it when I’m saying this. Imagine Aamir without Taare Zameen Par. Or Taare Zameen Par without Aamir. It would not be penetrating. One has to understand the penetration of a star,and his intention. If his intention is to take your message deep inside,he is your star. I don’t think I’ve gotten into a controversy,the controversy is a media controversy. It’s not fuelled from my house. Neither has Aamir fuelled it from his house.

You have no regrets…

No,absolutely. I am only thankful. Because otherwise it wouldn’t go that far. Otherwise who’s Amol Gupte? He’s just Aamir Khan’s senior from college,that’s it.

Will you play one line from Kaminey and Stanley?

Pha ko pha nahi bolega to kya bolega (laughs). It’s kind of rattling.

There’s a bit of philosophy to it.

And a childlike glee in that,you know. And of course,my great Babubhai Varma,pyaare mitra Stanley –Yeh bin dibbe ki gaadi jo hai,ab jhaar me hi pahunchne wali hai.

That is what Hindi teaching has also come to now. Sad. To make fun of Hindi,Sanskrit,Marathi.

It’s not cool. The son of the soil has more knowledge and if we had paid heed to Bapu,I would not be standing here in this T-shirt. I would be in a khadi-kurta and a dhoti.

Many years ago,George Fernandes,when he was defence minister,came to our office,and he stuck his hand out to shake mine. I said don’t shake hands with me,I’ve got flu. He said nothing will happen to me,I’m not pedigreed.

(Laughs) What a man.

Resilience,not pedigree,is the story now.

Pedigree se kya hota hai? Woh kuch nahi.

I hope you keep telling that story with the same passion and build a pedigree of your own. Wonderful to speak with you. I’m happy that you found the time for an old man,not a child.

(Laughs) What are you saying! You are also a child.

I am not a child.

Children seek me out.

I’m flattered.

Thank you very much.

Transcribed by Arundhati Chakravarty. For the full transcript,log on to www.indianexpress.com