‘Well, somebody has to give me an idea for an India-Pakistan symphony and I’ll bring it’

• We were not smiling, I particularly. Because I was covering that war in the strength of one plus one, with one photographer. Didn’t know anybody. Until someone said that you are from India, Zubin Mehta is from India. Call Zubin and he’ll open all doors for you. I came to your door at the Hilton and you opened all doors for me, starting with Shimon Peres. And you remember that lunch at the Hilton basement when you crushed four red peppers on your pasta and we were sitting when a couple of important looking men passed by and you said, Hey minister sahib, where are you going and you said to me, Here meet the biggest goonda in the Middle East, Ariel Sharon.

Well, he was the Prime Minister then. Today he has turned a corner. Today without him, Gaza would still be occupied, the settlements would have no chance of being unsettled. So Sharon has almost turned full circle from Right-wing standpoint on Israel, he now has people in his party who hate him and of course the Left Party hates him. So, he’s in a very difficult position. And if it wasn’t for him the situation would have been much harder. So I don’t consider him anymore a goonda.

• Maybe, a benign goonda…

It’s like Nixon going to China. Without Nixon that door wouldn’t have opened. It takes a radical sometimes to bring a revolution and I hope he’s successful.

• Well, it happened with (Menachem) Begin to begin with.

You can say that. He is opening certain doors with the Gaza settlement but on the other hand he’s giving his blessings to more settlements around Jerusalem.

• I think those are contradictions.

He’s cancelling his policies out. I hope he sees the light of the day.

• Are you still interested in what’s happening in the Middle East as you used to be?

Yes, I go there three times in a year. My allegiance to my orchestra in Israel and to the people there has actually not changed.

• Because I remember there was so much gratitude and affection at that time, people said that when the war breaks out in Israel, people might want to leave but Zubin Mehta comes here and stays afoot.

Give me a minute to see the place where I was born. I just need a few moments of contemplation. My mother planted that Gulmohar tree. And across the street was an elevated promenade and during the monsoon, when the rain came, people used to rush under it to take shelter and my memories of this house is like I came from paradise and look at it now. It’s like a mess. I wish I could buy this house and renovate it.

• I suspect you might do it, but you’ll have to run through millions and millions of legal paperwork. But you are also fortunate the house is still intact.

There used to be the most beautiful lawn here where I played cricket with my friend Dr Yusuf Hamied.

• He himself is a celebrity.

He’s a life-saver. I bring people together with my music sometimes. People who don’t smile at each other, sit together, like Arabs and Jews and at least for two-and-a half-hours, they have peace. Yusuf saves hundreds of thousands of lives.

• This has been the running strand in your life. Somehow you followed conflict, tension. You took Israeli harmony to India, you played music in Israel, you took an orchestra to Saudi, you played in the ruins.

We have to do that. We have to use our art in bringing people together and making people smile at each other. I once did a concert in Paris sponsored by the Unicef. And we got few people from antagonistic nations together. There was a Pakistani and an Indian who played music together. We had Russian and Chechens playing chamber music. And, of course, Jews and an Arab also.

• We have Edward Said and David Boyle playing with Israeli and Palestinian kids, would you also like to have a symphony between Indians and Pakistanis?

I would love to. But we are such friends now.

• So why not a symphony soon enough.

Yes, it started with cricket. Like America and China started with ping-pong. Our cricket is the most healthy sign happening, when we see how Pakistanis are welcomed in India, how they welcomed us.

• I believe you were really cross, I sliced you away from your TV screen for this interview.

Yes, I know. I was low and I want to cheer my country as soon as possible.

• Two things you have missed most about India are cricket and monsoon.

Yes. When Pakistan won the Third Test, it was not sad. It was good that each one won one test. Why should they hate us more than is necessary? It’s good that they went home with their head high.

• That’s the new guardian tinge to cricket. Let me tell you, that doesn’t work in the world of cricket.

I know. May the best side win. There’s no need to give away a match. I saw the whole match sitting in Los Angeles.

• And which telecast did you watch, Doordarshan?

I don’t know. It was Zee TV which telecast it there.

• So, you would say that sports has always been a unifier just like music.

Absolutely.

• So, when do we see this India-Pakistan symphony?

Well, somebody has to give me an idea and I’ll bring it.

• So will it be a symphony or will you bring some desi tunes to it.

Well, why not. We have to then see who’s available in Pakistan to play our music and I know there are enough Indians. I could form a little timbre of a story of Indians. I would like to go to Israel to demonstrate it too.

• When do you see that happening?

Well, you should first go to Egypt and Jordan. Another myopic circumstance was in 1978, when Begin signed the peace treaty with Sadat, I went to him and told him to send the Israel Philharmonic as a gesture, send us. In those days, he said to me I have to first do my settlements.

• Take me back a little when the Indian government was not on great terms with Israel. And you were like an unofficial ambassador — of Israel to India and India to Israel.

Well, I talked to Mrs Gandhi several times. She was quite adamant on opening negotiations between India and Israel. The negotiations were cut off in the ’60s war. And I don’t know why when three Arab nations attacked Israel simultaneously, we were angry with Israel for that. If she would have cut off negotiations with the other three countries, I would have understood.

• And you found that insistence irrational. She loved you as much as we loved you.

We had no problems on a personal level. She put some of her best friends in jail during the Emergency too. And she was very friendly with them. This is a part of Indian politics that the world doesn’t understand that we can be friends but we are so democratically-minded that we can have difference of opinions.

• Was it very frustrating then, and how much was the cathartic experience to bring Israeli harmony here?

It was a dream come true. In 1994, we came to China and India simultaneously because these two nations opened their diplomatic relations at the same time. And Israel had almost two billion more friends all of a sudden. So, we first went to Beijing and then came to Bombay and I was on cloud nine.

• You always use the instrument of orchestra to bring people together. I remember, you even had Yasser Arafat among your admirers.

We had that concert to commemorate the Oslo signing, it was in Paris, Arafat came and it was a mammoth concert. And it brought tears to people’s eyes. There were 8,000 people sitting in a sort of hockey-arena and we brought a choir of children — of Palestinian children and Arab children — mixed with blue-eyed cherubs and they all sang with the same T-shirt, a song of peace. And you couldn’t make out who was Arab and who was Palestinian.

• So, how did Arafat respond?

There was a little point of agreement that they were disagreeing about. They were so impressed by this gesture that the intermission that was for 15-20 minutes went on for one-and-a-half hour and everybody waited till the time Arafat and Shimon came out with some kind of an agreement about Jerusalem, some minor agreement and they announced this agreement on stage.

• And I believe, Arafat was so happy, he kissed you.

He came and hugged me. We met for the first time and he came and hugged me. Shimon, whom I knew, gave me his hand and Arafat hugged me. And both of us had beards and our beards got stuck together like velcro.

• Do you see some of this model being applied to the India-Pakistan situation?

Yes, it’s a wonderful thing that is happening. In fact everyday I hear and read about these talks that are going on. And this bus in Kashmir is a wonderful thing.

• Is there a lot that India has to learn from Israel?

My point with Mrs Gandhi was that you have ruled this country for so many years, you have so much experience, you can show the Israelis another way. She was not too interested.

• There’s a lot that Israelis can learn too. Particularly bringing so many communities together, treating them equal.

Hopefully now, we’ll have a Palestine, which will be the first democratic Arab country. There’s no real democracy in Arab countries. Hopefully, the Palestinians will achieve it.

• But there’s also an Israeli dilemma which comes from John Lucas’ ‘The Little Drummer Girl’. The protagonist there — he’s an Israeli spy but he’s also a liberal. And he says, if Israel is a democracy, it’s not a Zionist nation because so many Arabs will vote. If it’s not a democracy, it’s not a country I want.

That’s what the Israelis are afraid of that if they have one country with all the Arabs…

• Like India.

No, there’s no chance that the Muslims would become a majority in India. 120 million is enough I suppose.

• I mean not majority but we treat all the citizens as equal.

Yes, but if there’s a danger that Muslims would become a majority then you’ll have some sort of…

• So the Israelis have been in security.

The Israelis don’t want to be a minority in their own country. Because they have been a minority for 2,000 years in every European country. So this time they are trying to take care.

• Were there moments in that phase when India was backballing Israel, when you felt frustrated or angry and you thought why don’t they listen?

I think people are listening now but there are radicals on both sides who are trying to upset the sun that’s rising on the horizon. Both sides have radicals. One side kills more than the other. The Arabs kill their own radicals unfortunately.

• You have been the citizen of the world for a very long time. You became a globalised Indian much before the word globalisation became fashionable. How do you look at this shrinking world now and also tell us a bit about why, at a time when all Indians were lining up for foreign passports, you stayed on with your Indian passport?

Well, living in America, which I officially do, I am so proud of what the Indians have achieved. In the early 1960s I was kind of the only one trying to make a name. It’s so wonderful to see now the whole hi-tech industry, there’s not one hospital there without Indian doctors, not just young but superstars.

• You are very close to your Parsi roots.

I would say first an Indian. In parenthesis Parsi, for sure. I don’t forget either one. But to the world, I am an Indian. I never say I am a Parsi conductor. Makes no sense.

• But let me go back to the passport question. You never saw Indian passport as a liability in the days when visas were a problem. An Indian passport was not seen with as much respect as it is now.

Visas are still a problem. But it is something that I have to take into consideration and do it. I can’t change my nationality because I have a visa problem.

• And was that a conscious decision. I’m sure half the world would line up to give you a passport.

Hundred per cent. The Swiss once offered me a passport, which from the economical point of view, I was silly not to take. But I said no. I’m very happy living in Los Angeles. I’m an American Resident, which they call very insultingly, Resident Indian, says on my green card.

• Well, we have our insult, Non-Resident Indian.

So, I’m a non-resident Indian and a resident alien in America.

• Do you share the concern of the Parsis, about their dwindling numbers and what will happen to our culture now?

Well, I myself am guilty of it. I married outside my culture twice. But my daughter has a Navjot in Los Angeles in my home, about 15 years ago. She’s a Zoroastrian and my grand-daughter’s also a Zoroastrian. But my grandson is a Catholic.

• What do you tell the Parsis there. Worried or not worried?

I think one has to be more liberal. You can’t be as conservative as in my own family, my grandfather was quite conservative when it came to converting. I think half of India would not convert to Zoroastranism but at least those who marry.

• Is it true that you were angry over the movie Alexander.

It was exaggerated. They used the wrong symbol. So I phoned up Oliver Stone, he’s not a good friend but I know him. I told him that you are making a mistake, putting our holy sign behind the name of Alexander and I said how would you like it if I make a movie on Atilla the Hun and put Jesus Christ behind it. You wouldn’t like it. It would be historically wrong.

• What did he say?

Immediately he changed it.

• There was no resistance?

No, no. He said it was the mistake of some graphic planner. For them it was an exotic symbol.

• There was a lot of anger in the Parsi community about this film.

The Parsis are naive. This is history. Alexander defeated Darius. But of course, Darius married a Persian princess, Roxanne. Why should a black actress play that part? There’s no reason for that. I didn’t like the film myself.

• I have walked through Persia and when you see the ruins, you feel for the people there.

But this is history. It’s our Ayodhya, what are we going to do about it.

• Don’t say that or you’ll have one more controversy.

No, but we can’t go back to Persia and say that 2,000 years ago this was ours, so give it back to us. This is naive.