They havent understood Husain

Georgina Maddox: Did you face opposition for this?
Yes,there was a hesitation. Till 1989,when I had my first solo show in Bombay,my works were quite sober. But when I returned from Paris,I did a portrait of my fathers head,in which the head was four feet largeeven though we are taught in art school that the head shouldnt be larger than your palm. When I would go to the studio,I wouldnt look at the portrait,but then I realised I should do this work,its important,autobiographical and I felt it looked good.
The second painting I did was Bombay Buccaneer,based on the poster of Baazigar. I thought,what if I paint a self-portrait? And I painted two artists who I admired in the reflection of my dark glasses,Bhupen Khakhar and David Hockney. It was a risk,considering I knew Akbar Padamsee and Tyeb Mehta and was anxious to see how they would react to my work. But they were happy. The show opened in 1995 and was a success.

Unni Rajen Shanker: How conscious was your decision not to move out of Ghatkopar?
My father came from Saurashtra and a lot of Gujaratis live in Ghatkopar. I was born there and lived there in a chawl till I was 30. Then,we moved to an apartment and that chawl became my studio. Living in the suburb has given me a lot. I knew some Marathi poets whose lower middle-class background brought out the profound,suburban quality in their work.
So many times,I have resolved my creative problems during a ride from Ghatkopar to VT Victoria Terminus station on the local train,which has given me a lot. Of course,its very crowded,but the view of people on the platform and crossing the tracks inspired me to make the city my muse,like American pop artists such as Jasper Johns. Till 2005,I lived in a 600-square-foot studio and house. Now,of course,I have a larger studio.

Coomi Kapoor: How would you rate Indian art in comparison to the international art scene?
Its a complex situation. For instance,what the Bombay Progressives were doing in the 60s was done in Paris 50 years before. Theyre considered intelligent painters but not pioneers. When you look at what the Contemporaries are doing,its been done some 30 to 40 years ago as well. The wonderful experiments that have been done with oil painting from the Renaissance to post-modernism were done before we started doing oils when the British came. Then,the Bengal School said we are Indians and we should express ourselves differently.
I also feel some of our finest artists arent seen in the right perspective,so we feel they are partly imitative. In the West,there are so many publications and so many writers to propagate these styles and ideas,we dont have that. One can count the few good writers who write about Indian art on our fingers. Having said that,it is also sometimes true that we do fall into the imitation trap,and wait for approval from the West.

Charmy Harikrishnan: How do you react to MF Husain moving to Qatar?
We have talked a lot about this in the last 20 yearsthat they havent understood Husains approach. He is a formalist and deals with form. You cant expect religious icons to be painted and rendered in the same way as calendar art. All this is totally politically motivated,he is a Muslim and he has been targeted. Because there is nothing obscene in the way he paints women.I think its really sad. He is a senior artist and because of him,even the common man understands what the term Modern art means. He has made it popular with his flamboyant lifestyle. Hes 94 and wants to work quietly and cannot do it here. Its really sad. He has said,You cannot take the country out of me, and its unfortunate that our democracy is allowing something like this.

Coomi Kapoor: But why hasnt the artist community and the galleries not taken a stronger stand on the issue?
Thats not true. In Bombay,after the uproar over the Saraswati drawings,there were many public meetings and protests outside Jehangir Art Gallery. We have held demonstrations and sent letters to the government and the president. In Delhi,Sahmat has done a lot to raise awareness about the issue. We donated paintings and there was an exhibition that protested against Husains exile. Probably,these things have not been reported enough by the media but if tomorrow Husains work sells for a million dollars,this will be reported.
I feel disgusted by the 900 cases filed against him from small places. Hes the only Muslim painter who has rendered the Ramayana and Mahabharata in his work. But these have come naturally in his work,you can see that.

Shailaja Bajpai: Do we see what has happened to Husain having a wider impact on the artist community? Has it had an effect of making the artist feel inhibited?
Yes,it has had an impact. Artists are nervous when they want to do something but we also dont want riots to happen in the name of art. If a work generates tension among communities,we have to explain it the right way and think about it. For instance,for an installation,I painted Goddess Mahalakhsmi on a shutter. When it is rolled up,another painting behind it is revealed: of three women hanging from a fan. It was based on a real incident in Kanpur where three girls had killed themselves because their father could not afford their dowry. So my critique was of the idea of Lakhsmiwhen girls are born in a Hindu family,we say the goddess of wealth is born. But for the same Lakshmi or money,these girls had to hang themselves. Its a poster-like work and was shown at Sakshi Gallery. The locals who saw it were disturbed but there was no opposition. Though people didnt like it,they had to acknowledge its true. We are afraid to get controversy into our work. If I ask a layperson if it is a good idea to paint Saraswati nude,she would say no. But issues like the post-Babri or Gujarat riots are more important than my creative freedom.

LEHER KALA: Youre married to a celebrated artist,Anju Dodiya. How does it work? Do you influence each other ever or do you share a studio?
No,we do not share a studio anymore,though we used to. I am more of an extrovert and I share my works. People pass by and can see me painting. Sometimes,they comment on my work and I am happy to interact with them. But Anju prefers isolation. She has an extreme personal approach and I think it works well. We do like the same film-makers,authors,artists and music though. I was her teacher once so I feel I can teach her. But she doesnt listen to me. She has her own individual approach.

Georgina Maddox: In the current art market,how do you feel about art being viewed in a monetary way?
When one stops talking about the aesthetics of paintings and only looks at money,market and sale,that irritates me. When I had joined art school in 1977,one could never imagine surviving on just painting,one had to teach as well. But I was quite confident about myself as a painter.
I also exhibit with the intention of selling through a gallery,but the rise in prices of my art has been gradual. My first painting,in 1981,sold for Rs 2,000. A landmark was the first Help Age Auction in 1985 held by Christies. Critical and commercial response is important for an artists growth. But the boom in the last four to five years was so big that all focus was on the the price a work of art fetched at an auction,instead of its quality.
On the bright side though,it generated immense confidence among younger artists,who arent afraid of experimenting,and newer collectors came in. But those who came as investors couldnt really benefit,as the market collapsed. As an artist,I would think about it to a certain extent. Like where I am showing,how Im pricing my work,I take care that it should not come into auction right away and be flipped back into the secondary market. But Id kill my creativity if I get overly involved in this.

Coomi Kapoor: You have studied and taught at JJ School of Art,which is government-run,like most other art colleges. Has a bureaucratic approach hampered the nurturing of artistic talent in India?
Many great artists have passed out from JJ School but what you say is true to some extent. Recently,I went with my wife Anju to the National Museum to see one of the finest collections of miniature paintings but the lighting there was so dim that it was difficult to see,the atmosphere was pathetic,a horrid turquoise green was slapped on the pedestals. Besides,there are no publications and the people at the ticket counter are rude. Is great art the lowest priority for the government? In Europe,people stand in long queues to enter the museum even in winter.
I know our problems are different,people dont get food to eat,there are bigger issues the government has to resolve but a museum should have such basic facilities like proper lights.
In JJ also,there is this apathy. It was December 18,1979 and the 100th birth anniversary of Paul Klee,the great German Expressionist. I was in second year and wanted to celebrate at home,but I needed a photograph of Klee. I went to the library to take a photograph of the artists image in a book. The librarian said I needed permission from the dean,who sent me to the registrar,and he in turn demanded I read the copyright of the book. I argued that I am a student and am not going to reproduce it in another book but he just refused. So,I went to the Homi Bhabha reference library whose librarian I knew. He got me 10 books on Klee. I took them to the terrace and shot in natural light. You can imagine the level of frustration and thats not encouraging for creative people.

Dipanita Nath: Tell us about your current shown on Malevich. Why did it take you so long to have a solo?
Kazimir Malevich was a pioneer of the Russian avant garde and suprematism,the style in which he painted. He did white on white and was the first minimalist artist. During the Lenin and Stalin period,he became a figurative painter and people criticised him for giving into political pressure,but he said that he was driven by impulse. What I like about him is that he would move and shift the way he wanted without being aware of labels. Malevich matters and Other Shutters is the name of the show and its not only about him.
I took two years to complete this body of work. Its a fair time to take for oil painting,because oil demands time. One also has to keep in mind the great oil painters who have gone before me,who have already achieved so much with this medium.

Subhamoy Bhattacharjee: It appears that works by Indian artists dont reflect the times we live in.
An artist would not reach out like a newspaper article with a strong comment. He would talk metaphorically of things. I am not a political leader who would lead a rally. I do things in my studio. There are many contemporary painters though whose art is motivated by current events. Its not necessary for an artist to react to current events.

Coomi Kapoor: You have criticised the Gujarat riots,but have you made any art on this?
I did a work called Broken Branches that was shown in Milan and New York,but not in India. It was an installation,a series of nine shallow cabinets that consisted of photographs,human bones and prosthetic limbs. I spoke of Gandhis Gujarat in the context of today. Another work titled Antlers Anthology takes the works of contemporary Gujarati poets and renders them with charcoal crushed in watercolour and glue. The poetry appears to emerge out of ash. I didnt work directly on the issue but around it.
Transcribed by Georgina Maddox For the longer version,visit https://indianexpress.com