‘NDA is so loose… So much for whether BJP or Cong has more glue to keep allies attached’

Sachin Pilot: The Congress has maintained a stable government for the last nine years with its allies. Unfortunately,there are some allies who are not with us any more. But the future is pregnant with possibilities and we will always try to make sure that we work with our allies and take anybody on board who is willing to work with us for the betterment of our country. I don’t think it is a matter of finding fault with the allies. There are political compulsions related to the states that have led to one or two allies not being with us anymore. But let’s talk about the Opposition. BJP is the principal opposition party. Now being in opposition and getting everybody together should have been an easy task. But if you look at the numbers in the NDA in the last five years,they’ve had problems with Om Prakash Chautala,Naveen Patnaik and Nitish Kumar. The NDA has become very loose despite being in the Opposition. So much for the question of which of the two parties—Congress and BJP—has more glue to which allies can stick to.

Shruti Srivastava: After the Sahara case,have you identified companies which have violated the private placement aspect of the companies law? What action has been taken against such companies?

Sachin Pilot: Many companies have misused the private placement aspect of the companies’ law in the past. In the new Companies Bill,we’ve made it far more stringent for these companies to come clean by way of disclosures. Private placements are required for companies to raise capital without getting listed. There are restrictions on how much and where you can do it. There have always been loopholes which people have exploited. We need to tighten those loopholes. More effective would be to make sure that people are able to recover their money. I have just signed MoUs between the IT Department,the Finance Ministry,the Economic Intelligence Unit and our own technology unit within the SFIO to make sure that we collate the data.

M K Venu: Chit fund companies have deep links with local politicians. How do you deal with it?

Sachin Pilot: If anyone is out of the ambit of law,whether he’s related to a politician or related to a minister,it doesn’t matter. We are going after people who are not following the law. We are doing this to save investors because we should create an environment in this country where people have confidence that their money is safe. Again,the MoU that we have signed was about how to detect money that is flowing in,to make sure that it is not used in terror activities and funding of crime.

Shobhana Subramanian: You are for less regulation but for Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR),you have put a mandatory condition of 2 per cent of net profit. Shouldn’t it be voluntary for companies?

Sachin Pilot: Since Independence,there have been companies that have been phenomenal in giving back to society. If you read the Bill properly,it says that if you are profitable,please spend 2 per cent of your profits in whichever area you want to. It is not regulated. And there’s no inspection and no utilisation certificate. The Bill also states that if you can’t spend the money,report the reasons and disclose it on your website. The government really doesn’t interfere in that.

Ashish Sinha: But the ministry also has penal provisions for those who don’t comply. Doesn’t that amount to enhancing the government’s role?

Sachin Pilot: If you can’t spend the money,please report it to shareholders and put it on the website. And if you don’t do it,then it attracts Section 134 of the law and the various penal provisions. It is part of the law.

ARUN S: This question is related to the WalMart lobbying issue. What measures are we taking to tackle lobbying?

Sachin Pilot: The word lobbying has no definition in law. So what activities qualify as lobbying we have to device as a government and as a society. I’ll give you an example. If you are working in a rural area making a canal or a school building,then 20 people may come and tell me that this is the wrong way to do it as there’s more water here or there. They are raising concerns. So they are lobbying with me not to spend money in a particular area. That is not wrong. We must discuss how to define lobbying. After there’s a clear definition,like in the USA and Europe. If companies don’t comply with it,then there’s trouble. As far as the WalMart case is concerned,there’s a committee looking into the case and the report should be out in a month and a half.

Ashish Sinha: On the issue of appointment of independent directors,the Companies’ Bill says it will decide on a list of people for companies to select from. Does the new Bill increase government interference in company matters?

Sachin Pilot: I think lesser the government interference,the better. We should have less regulation and full compliance. But if there is less compliance then we must take strong action so that a message goes out that you can’t flout the law. For the record,we are not making it mandatory for companies to select independent directors from this pool. But we’ll help in creating this database so that companies can choose from it. What we have mandated now is for a certain class of companies to at least have one woman director on the board.

Surabhi: India ranks 132nd in the World Bank’s list of ease in doing business. What kind of measures can be taken to improve these ratings so that more FII and FDI flow in?

Sachin Pilot: We don’t deserve to be 132 on any list. With the kind of scale,scope,depth that this country has to offer,being 132 doesn’t do justice to us. For that reason we have set up a committee headed by former SEBI chairman Mr Damodaran. He is giving us the report by the end of March. I have told him that it should be a very short report on what we need to do. Improving the ranking also includes doing a lot of things. Let’s face it,we need 12 million new jobs every year just to maintain the current level of employment. The government can’t give jobs. The jobs have to be created by the private sector and no large economy has ever grown on the strength of its blue chip companies; it is the SMEs who do manufacturing. These companies are the engine for growth for any large economy.

Rishi Raj: The Competition Commission of India (CCI) was started with much fanfare but most of the areas where they have acted,the companies have gone on to appeal in appellate tribunals. So far,not a single rupee has been collected in penalty. What can be done to tackle this?

Sachin Pilot: The CCI is an independent regulator. We have put forth a Bill to amend the Competition Act so that all the regulators talk to CCI, which looks at cartelisation,abuse of dominance and power. In India,free and fair companies should have the right to appeal. I think it would be odd to have a judicial process carved out for the Competition Commission.

Ashish Sinha: To date,the CCI has imposed a penalty of around Rs 8,500 crore. Not much of it has come to the government. Can the ministry look into it?

Sachin Pilot: There are some courts where you have to deposit 25 per cent of the penalty fine and then you can appeal. That’s not the process we are following right now. Many fines have been imposed but then people have moved courts.

Manu Pubby: You are a minister and a regular officer in the TA (Territorial Army). Have you been able to find time to go for training and interact with the people there?

Sachin Pilot: Yes,I have. TA requirements are that we need to spend 32 days in a year. The likely unit for me is in Delhi. I have to find time and go there. That’s the commitment,so one has to.

Dilip Bobb: Shouldn’t political donations made by corporates be more transparent?

Sachin Pilot: All registered parties show their donations. In fact,companies get tax benefits on political donations. Whatever cash parties get,they disclose in their statement. It is a transparent mechanism.

D K Singh: As a Congress leader,do you think Rahul Gandhi is not interested in taking over as prime minister?

Sachin Pilot: What is very clear is that he’s not hankering for the position. There are many people who are aspiring to be a contender for the PM’s position. Mr Gandhi has said that it is not important who occupies the position,it is about his philosophy and ideology. He has said that he is not making it a focal point of what he wants to do.

Coomi Kapoor: The BJP doesn’t know who its PM candidate will be,nor does the Congress.

Sachin Pilot: Well,we don’t have a presidential form of election where you declare your PM candidate. The BJP did that in 2009 when they declared Mr Advani as their PM candidate. Even now,there are over a dozen candidates in the BJP who aspire to be the PM candidate and with all this publicity,the situation is still not clear for the BJP… Dr Manmohan Singh will be there till 2014. We are not in 2014,we are in 2013,we have a PM today who will see us through and he will complete 10 years as PM. We are confident that we will form UPA 3.

D K Singh: Is it fair to assume that Rahul Gandhi may not be PM candidate?

Sachin Pilot: I can’t say. Everybody fights elections to win. Nobody fights to lose. We have done enough work and people know the reality. I think people will give the UPA a third chance. It is not my job to rule (Rahul Gandhi) out or rule him in. All I am saying is that he’s not in politics just to become a minister or PM.

Maneesh Chhibber: You just said one dozen people in the BJP aspire to the PM. Don’t you find it ironic that whenever the issue of the (Gandhi) family comes up in the Congress,all leaders are expected to step back. If Rahul Gandhi chooses to be the PM,it is his for the taking,not for the asking. What kind of democracy is this?

Sachin Pilot: In the last 24 years,has there been a Gandhi who has been the PM of India? Was Dr Singh from the Gandhi family? Was Narasimha Rao from the Gandhi family? Complete unanimity in our leadership gives us a cohesion to work unitedly and defeat our political opponents. That’s a strength. If it was about becoming PM alone,Mrs (Sonia) Gandhi could have done it easily in 2004. The point is that they have made us win elections and have chosen not to become PM.

Ambreen Khan: As a young politician,where do you derive your inspiration from and what kind of inspiration do you derive from Narendra Modi? If you had to change gears for the Congress now,what would you do?

Sachin Pilot: I don’t think I am changing the paradigm of things in this country. I am too small a person to do that. But in my own way,if I am able to bring about a positive change,even if it’s half a per cent,I go to sleep content with what I have done. I have been an MP for four years in a constituency my party didn’t hold for 25 years. Getting the wishes of people is far more rewarding than any laurels or certificates. This is what drives me. When it comes to Mr Modi,I don’t draw any inspiration from him but I do admire his relentless obsessiveness for trying to reach the PM’s post at any cost. I mean it takes something to be so driven. It is okay to be the CM three times. It is great that he has a hat-trick of election victories,but so has Sheila Dikshit and Tarun Gogoi. Jyoti Basu was elected as CM five times—he didn’t bang his chest all over the world. So,I think success must be accompanied by humility. In my view,the post of the PM has come to people who have worked the least hard for it and people who have worked very,very hard for it have never got it. He’s done everything,even almost adorning a skull cap to improve his chances.

Transcribed by Rajat Arora