`Development alone will get you votes’

There is a fear that your vision of a modern Andhra Pradesh could lead to techno-casteism with some sectors developing at the expense of others.
That is not correct. I want to use all resources with utmost efficiency. My mission is very clear: I want to eradicate poverty by using all the resources, natural resources, human resources, mineral wealth. I have always said that one should have vision. To achieve that vision you have to prepare human resources. All other things will fall in line. You can borrow money, you can repay money, you can borrow technology, get technology and also get the best that is being practised all over the world. That is exactly what I am doing. I am concentrating (on) every area, especially rural development, natural resource building, water associations… involving all farmers in better water management techniques. Within two years, I have brought an additional 10.5 lakh acres under irrigation.

But there is criticism thatagricultural land is being urbanised…
That’s why now my slogan is, if you take all infrastructure and also information technology, Internet and computers to the villages and provide better education and healthcare, we can minimise migration. The pressure on urban areas will be less. I am creating rural employment, self-help opportunities, small technologies, small-scale industries, power tool kits.

A few years ago, Andhra Pradesh was on the verge of bankruptcy. How did you find the resources?
First vision and human resources development, then (financial) resources. I requested World Bank President James Wolfensohn to come to Hyderabad. He said it was not a priority, because Andhra Pradesh was a bankrupt state. I met him in Delhi and presented my Vision documents. He asked me how much I wanted, and he would give it. I told him, you have a big bureaucracy, so even if you give money after five years, it will not be useful for me. Then he said that he would lend on priority, and sanction itimmediately. That’s how I got so much of money. Money is not the criterion in this world. First ideas, creativity, then better performance. Nowadays, you see youngsters doing wonders in IT.

Economic reform must have a human face. You cannot cut off all welfare programmes. Ours is not a developed country. We have to look after poor people while we reform. You can reduce subsidies after income is generated. Even developed countries are giving subsidies. Here what I am doing… I am giving more subsidies than any other state and at the same time I am going for reforms, not only economic reforms but also administrative reforms, performance appraisal, and so on.

You don’t find any contradiction in this: subsidies on one hand, raising resources on the other….
Everybody says reform means cutting subsidies. That is not correct. Reform means rationalisation of your expenditure. How you are going to spend your money ideally by allowing subsidies, (ensuring) better performance, better targeting ofgroups, and at the same time create additional assets and additional employment.

Now, I want to consult the best economists… my governor is there, some more people… What is the secret of Bill Clinton? Only better economic reforms (on the welfare front), and theirs is a developed country. I want to optimally utilise all my money.

You were part of the United Front government, your ideas seem to be left-wing, but now you have joined forces with right-wing parties espousing right-wing economics and seemingly distanced yourself from the left coterie, but you have not joined the government.
We were very firm on reform from the beginning. Even when I was a member in the UF, there was a difference of opinion and I fought for reforms. I have pursued reform for the last four years. The Congress, the BJP, even regional parties, everyone is saying the same thing about reform except the communists, but they are outdated now. Their thinking, their philosophy… they are not practical. But the Chinese madeit very clear: the cat can be black, or white or red, so long as it catches mice. The message was very clear. All our best practices, information technology, international benchmarks, economic reforms, all these should be in a position to give wealth to our people. All over the world, human psychology is the same. You are no different from an American or a Japanese. Everybody wants peace and prosperity, but their leadership has built up, they are able to give some direction, they are able to do well. In India, everybody thought economic reforms won’t work, even development won’t bring votes. But development alone will get you votes. Performance alone will get you votes.

You have said that you got the vote for development. But people say that aligning with the BJP gave you the majority.
But the same BJP votes didn’t help in Karnataka, UP and Punjab. Ultimately, only performance will endure.

You need power for development. What is your strategy for fulfilling the power needs of AndhraPradesh?
There are so many ways. One has to compare which fuel is going to work more economically and where. In Hyderabad, we generate small amounts from garbage. In future, mega projects are not going to work. Small projects to suit local needs are the answer. In the villages, we are even thinking of household energy generation.

To what extent do you propose to subsidise education?
We will completely subsidise primary education. Another area is man management. What are our human resource needs? How many engineers are required? How many doctors? I will analyse the demand and then create opportunities for them. I have to re-orient totally and promote need-based education.

They say your investment in the IT sector and your dependence on it is lopsided.
That is where you are wrong. I am not spending a single pie. Formerly, there was land-grabbing. I have given that land (to the hi-tech city, 180 acres of it). I am getting Rs 1 crore for every acre. I am making money on it. At thesame time, I am developing human resources.

Is there any special reason why you didn’t join the Vajpayee’s Cabinet? The scruff of the Centre’s neck is in your hands.
Why should I do all those things? I am always telling them: you govern well, and I’ll support you. I want good governance. That’s all.

If there is a conflict with the Centre over resource allocation in the next three years, would you reconsider your support to the government?
I’ll fight it out. My priority is my state. Th country is also my priority, but I am not going to allow any injustice to my state. I can’t compromise, but I am confident that they (the Centre) will do justice to my state.

It has been a remarkable journey from the Cinematography Ministry under Anjaiah to Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh. When do you propose to attack the Centre?
Oh, I don’t have any aspirations. This is a state party. I know my limitations.