Himachal Pradesh Chief Minister Sukhvinder Singh Sukhu on restoring the Old Pension Scheme and why the Congress needs to move from power-driven to organisation-driven politics . This session was moderated by Associate Editor Manoj CG. Manoj CG: What are the challenges and opportunities before you as a first-time Chief Minister? Today, Himachal Pradesh’s debt is Rs 75,000 crore and our population is 70 lakh. The arrears of retired personnel due to the BJP government’s Sixth Pay Commission are Rs 5,500 crore and for currently employed personnel, the figure is Rs 4,500 crore. They have passed a Dearness Allowance burden of Rs 992 crore to us. In the last six months, they opened 900 institutions and we’ve made an in-principle decision not to open them till we hire staff and post them wherever they are needed. Fixing the administrative breakdown and managing debts are the big challenges. I believe that it will take us four years to improve the state’s economic condition. We can’t think of taking loans to repay the debt. We need to decide on a direction and fiscal discipline. By 2025, our target is to make Himachal a green state. We are the first state in the country to completely convert our transport department and use only electric vehicles (EVs). In a year, all government departments will switch to EVs. We will transition from thermal power to hydro power, which is in excess, and move to green hydrogen. In the daytime, we will use renewable solar power to extract hydrogen from water. At night, we will use hydropower to create green hydrogen. We are working towards decarbonisation. Our state can become prosperous in four years and in 10, it can become the best state. Manoj CG: Your election promises included Rs 1,500 grant to every woman (aged 18-60 years) and one lakh jobs. While you have a debt close to Rs 90,000 crore, where will you get the money to fulfill all your promises? I talked about improving the economic condition. We will get money for scheme-based decisions. For example, e-buses will require Rs 300 crore and the green corridor needs Rs 100 crore. We have land and electricity, we just need the infrastructure. For e-buses, there’s a problem — Tata and Ashok Leyland say they will introduce their own buses. So we decided to make it universal. We will do it through fiscal discipline and our Budget. A good government needs good governance. Aakash Joshi: In Himachal Pradesh and other Congress-ruled states, there is talk of bringing back old pension schemes. Pension and government salaries can go up to 20-30 per cent (of the state budget) and restrict your spending power. There was some talk in January that the pension would be funded by increasing VAT and petrol prices. Citizens feel that government employees are a privileged minority. There’s not much financial burden from the Old Pension Scheme (OPS), about Rs 200 crore. Employees do not retire in one go; 20 might retire in a month, 10 in another and 100 in another. The number of employees retiring keeps reducing. OPS has been in effect since independence when there was widespread illiteracy and little manufacturing of goods. In today’s perspective, OPS is not just for monetary benefit, it works as a social security. It is a human approach. Through OPS, people get an assured income every month. What’s wrong with giving social security to people who worked for 30-40 years and helped in the state’s development because of which schools and buses run? Everyone pays taxes and government employees are not a privileged class. The Congress politics is now power-driven but during Indira Gandhi’s time, it was more organisation and issue-driven. We are losing the organisational base. If this is strong, then our workers will get the voter to the booth It is wrong to say we have increased VAT and petrol prices to fund OPS. The previous government had reduced the VAT by Rs 7 six months before the elections. When I compared the diesel rates in adjoining states — Uttarakhand, Punjab, Haryana — and Jammu & Kashmir (UT), I found that even after increasing diesel prices by Rs 3, our rates were lower. Aakash Joshi: In 1991, the all-India pension bill was Rs 3,000 crore and increased to Rs 38,000 crore in 2020. The financial burden keeps increasing. The burden is not permanent. Several governments are doling out freebies. Take the Delhi government for example. It buys electricity and then distributes it to the people. We charge even after having a surplus. Now, we have promised to give 300 units for free because we have more surplus in the next five years. We will provide benefits to the people of the state. That’s the responsibility of a welfare state. AAP’s road is long because an organisation can’t be built in a day. You can influence people to a certain extent with words, speeches and social media. But if you don’t perform, the voter knows how to give a timely response Manoj CG: The New Pension Scheme (NPS) was started during Atal Bihari Vajpayee’s time. Virbhadra Singh’s government in Himachal was the first to move to the NPS. UPA was in power for 10 years and kept employing this scheme. Was that a mistake? Decisions are born out of circumstances, not dictated. We saw the condition of our employees and thought that OPS would not add any burden. Will 1.36 lakh employees retire in just one day? On the one hand, we are giving Rs 1,500 to people over the age of 60. Then how can we not give to employees saying that we have given them a lump sum? There needs to be uniformity. All governments should employ the OPS. Even the GoI, from a human and social perspective, should launch OPS. We are not here to run a shop. We are here to ensure our resources are used in our state and bring about development. Jatin Anand: How big a factor is environment in infrastructure development in Himachal Pradesh? If you take the Joshimath case in Uttarakhand, the population pressure in the hills is increasing. The situation is not like Joshimath. If a hill is cut, it takes five years for the strata to settle. One of the biggest districts, Lahaul and Spiti, doesn’t have many trees and receives a lot of snowfall. Fragile hills are part of a natural process. The five rivers also cause much erosion. But Himachal does not have a Joshimath-like situation. Harikishan Sharma: What will be the liability of OPS? What about those who joined after January 1, 2004? Jobs are announced every year. For those who joined in 2004, their 30-year liability will be in 2034. Accordingly, it will change with the number of years worked. We declared OPS by keeping a few things in mind. One is giving pension to our employees, making money available for them and the NPS of Rs 8,000 crore lying with the BJP government. We will have to fight for that. Keeping this in mind, we kept it in a ledger account. Harikishan Sharma: The money of NPS that you’re talking about, according to the Pension Fund Regulatory and Development Authority (PFRDA) rule that your government had introduced, is the employees’ share. It has been invested according to the PFRDA rules. In Himachal Pradesh, 14 per cent is given by the government and 10 per cent is given by the employees. They have 24 per cent of our money. If rules are made, they can also be amended. Manoj CG: During elections, two cement plants of the Adani group were also shut down in the state. Any attempt being made to restart them? There was a strike on the fourth day after I became Chief Minister. This is an issue between the employees and the employer. It has been 50 days and the state Home Minister has talked to both parties. I think we will be able to settle this soon. Shahid Pervez: The Assembly elections in Gujarat and Himachal happened simultaneously. But while the Congress comfortably won Himachal, in Gujarat, it had its worst-ever performance. Why did that happen? I have never been to Gujarat, so cannot comment. The Congress politics is now power-driven but during Indira Gandhi’s time, it was more organisation and issue-driven. Somewhere, we are losing the organisational base. In Himachal Pradesh, our organisation is the strongest and has a good connectivity with constituents from all age groups. Himachal is a 97 per cent Hindu state but still the Congress’ ideology defeated the BJP’s Hindutva ideology. This is also the home state of BJP president JP Nadda and Union Minister Anurag Thakur. Union Home Minister Amit Shah did rallies here. Why then could we defeat them? Because the people understand that the performance of a government cannot be judged on the basis of religion. People of Himachal assess performance indices of candidates, find out their behaviour and check if someone is corrupt or not. The electorate here is the most literate, more than in Kerala. It is a politically awakened state as 59 per cent of women have won in the Panchayat Raj elections. I came from the National Student Union of India (NSUI). Close to 15 people from my time have become MLAs. We are not here for power but to improve people’s lives. If you look at our decision in the last two years, they were all made keeping in mind the new generation’s problems. Manoj CG: What is the meaning of a power-driven and not an organisation-driven party? The Congress was in power for several years but organisationally we became a little weak. I would like to thank Rahul Gandhi for trying to strengthen the organisation’s base. People are not understanding that if our base is strong, then our workers will get the voter to the booth and the Congress will get stronger. The party will not get stronger with slogans. Our suchi pramukh, where one person has 60 voters, gets them out on voting day. Today, the BJP is moving away from organisational-driven politics to power-driven politics. That’s why it is weakening. Manoj CG: What should the Congress do in other Hindi heartland states, particularly in UP, where it isn’t visible at all? I will have to stay there and study the situation. I can’t comment now. Manoj CG: The BJP had made the Anti-Conversion Law more stringent. Will you rethink that law? The Congress did not bring in that law. The Constitution provides us with the freedom to choose our religion. Prince Dhanta: The state needs a concrete urban development policy. We can’t wait for a tragedy to stop haphazard construction in places like Shimla. When Shimla was the summer capital of the Britishers, how many people was it for? Just 10,000 people. Today, look at the population pressure, which means the land cost in Shimla is more than Mumbai’s. We should thank our first chief minister Yashwant Singh Parmar, who had introduced Section 118 in the Himachal Pradesh Tenancy and Land Reforms Act, 1972. The section bars transfer of land to non-agriculturists without the permission of the state government. We already have an urban development plan, which we are trying to improve. We went horizontal where we had to go vertical — everywhere we made no more than four-storey buildings. Then an NGT order said that you cannot make buildings taller than 2.5 storeys. Our Secretariat is eight storeys. What kind of a law is this? Our strata are hard. Despite being a seismic zone, Japan has buildings that are as tall as 10-12 storeys. Ninety per cent of our economy is rural-based. We have city-like facilities in our villages. Close to 22 lakh people have vehicles in Himachal, which is a prosperous state. But in 75 years, no new city was built. We need to build new cities for progress. Harikishan Sharma: Priyanka Gandhi aggressively campaigned for you in the recent elections. She is also going to Karnataka. Is she more effective as a campaigner than Rahul Gandhi? I don’t compare. Priyanka Gandhi has made Himachal Pradesh her home and keeps visiting Shimla. Therefore, Congress leaders asked her to lead the campaign from the front. She refused at first but when we put pressure on her, she agreed to campaign. She had a vital role in this victory. National leaders mobilise cadres. The kind of response her first campaign in Solan got made us decide that she should campaign more. She conducted 10 rallies and the Congress won in all the constituencies she went to. She is very enthusiastic about the issues of each constituency, meets the common man. She met about 20 people outside the Deputy Commissioner’s office and told them she would get back the Old Pension Scheme. Nishant Shekhar: Rahul Gandhi did not address even one rally. What kind of strategy was this, to keep him aside? Rahul Gandhi’s ideology surprised the BJP. An ideology comes from leadership. Rahul Gandhi took this thought process to the people through his padayatra. Nishant Shekhar: You say he was strengthening the party through his Bharat Jodo Yatra but at the same time, senior Congress leaders like Ghulam Nabi Azad and Kapil Sibal have quit. Recently, Balasaheb Thorat also left the party. Is the Congress becoming stronger or weaker? Several people leave due to differences of opinion but the ideology never dies. Rahul Gandhi’s ideology is India’s unity and diversity. What’s the need for one man to walk from Kanyakumari to Kashmir? He has an ideology, power is not his target. It is unity and diversity for which his father and grandmother sacrificed their lives. Manoj CG: Prime Minister Narendra Modi says the Congress, having lost power, keeps attacking the BJP. How do you read his recent Lok Sabha speech? Issues are discussed in Parliament but that does not result in contempt. This is the beauty of democracy that we present our thoughts in a straightforward manner. Manoj CG: Your “Chowkidar Chor Hai” campaign over Rafale didn’t work. On the Adani issue too, you are walking the same road. Will this strategy work? If Rahul Gandhi spoke about Adani, there must be some facts he must be relying on. The people in power will not allow him to prove himself. Vandita Mishra: You said the Bharat Jodo Yatra was not for the elections. But with 2024 general elections around the corner, don’t you think the yatra ought to have been linked to it? Rahul Gandhi has done yatra with an ideology of unity and diversity. He walked 3,000 km but he had no need to do this. He wasn’t the president of the Congress. An ideology wins over people. Jatin Anand: The Aam Aadmi Party (AAP) government in Punjab looks quite confident. How big a threat is the AAP’s expansion in Himachal? AAP won in Punjab, which shares its border with Himachal, so there was bound to be some spillover effect. But Himachalis choose those who are aam in the true sense. The AAP’s road is long because an organisation cannot be built in a day. You did good governance in Delhi, the people gave you another chance. But who made the Bhakra Beas Management Board? Who established democracy? In the future, their politics, too, will face challenges. You can influence people to a certain extent with words, speeches and social media. But if you don’t perform, the voter knows how to give a timely response. Sourav Roy Barman: What’s your roadmap to sustainably encourage tourism, specially hydro and medical tourism? In my two months as Chief Minister, we have given tourism high priority. We are going to make India’s first tourism capital in Kangra. We are going to allocate money for tourism in the budget and develop attractions for every age group. We have decided to improve road connectivity. We will connect all district headquarters and top tourism sports with heliports. You can board from Chandigarh and reach Shimla in 18 minutes. This will save travel costs. Why Sukhvinder Singh Sukhu Himachal Pradesh CM Sukhvinder Singh Sukhu won the recent Assembly elections, defeating the Opposition BJP by strengthening the Congress grassroots network, connecting with the masses and mobilising the voters. He showed how the Congress can still win elections with a good organisational strategy. Having completed two months in office, he is now focussing on making Himachal Pradesh a model state. He has the depth of political experience, having started his political life as a student leader in the early 80s. He became the president of the NSUI, the Youth Congress in the ’90s, and then headed the Himachal PCC. This will lend weight to his credibility as an administrator.
