‘Some artefacts important to their country of origin… must be repatriated on ethical grounds…’: Spain Minister

Indian antiquities have landed abroad because of various reasons. Beyond the legal issues of smuggling and theft, there are ethical issues pertaining to colonial plunder. What is your view on that?

Well, we do have general agreements regarding these things but sometimes we must look at specific cases and see if it’s not just legal but ethical. And it’s not easy sometimes, because there’s a commercial transaction with a perfectly written contract.

But there are artefacts or goods that are so important to the cultural identity of the country of origin that even if the legal transaction was correct they should still recover it. However, it’s pertinent to start conversation or dialogue or deliberations at some level between the two countries involved, and then things can be viewed on a case-by-case basis.

One of the themes of the G20 cultural track is also about destruction of cultural heritage due to war.

Countries have to first try to stop the wars. In the war Russia has imposed on Ukraine, we are working closely with the Ukrainian government in order to preserve their heritage and, in some cases, restore it. I feel that if a country takes the initiative of launching a war, it must be held responsible for that.

In all the G20 communiques so far, there have been disagreements on some specific references to the Ukraine war. How do you think a consensus can be reached?

It’s very difficult. We are now heading towards the Leaders’ Summit. All of us are sad about not being able to reach an agreement (on Ukraine), but we did try to have…a consensus on other subjects… I know it’s frustrating, but I think it’s better to agree on some things.

We don’t want to raise a flag of disagreement or disappointment, but a flag of consensus, and Spain is willing to help in anything we can.

But the positions regarding Ukraine have been very firm.

Sure, we are on the side of Ukraine. We feel that the invasion provoked by Vladimir Putin’s government is absolutely illegal and that’s our point of view. And we feel that (the process) to reach a peace agreement must begin by listening to what the Ukraine government is saying. If the country that starts the war benefits from it, the possibility of new wars in future becomes absolutely higher.

Is there a possibility of a complete consensus?

We are also saying there are some important things that should be agreed upon, such as fighting illegal trafficking and to defend, protect, restore and promote cultural heritage. The best way to prevent wars is to promote cooperation and friendship in the cultural field.

Do you think that, of late, the world’s view of India has changed vis a vis its civilisational strength?

There’s a feeling that India is making a great effort to develop economically. And there’s an increased interest in what India thinks, what India wants and also, sometimes, in what we can take from India, what our interests are in India.

What we love about India is that it is a democracy. We know India’s population, we know the growth of its GDP, we know that in Asia, India is central. But no, I’m not so sure that in the world there’s knowledge of what India represents in terms of history and culture. And I think this dimension is very important and that’s why we want to deepen the cultural cooperation between the two countries.