Bollywood dance is much easier

Moumita Chakrabarti: Bharatanatyams music is not understood by everybody. Is it a challenge to communicate it to the audience?
It is very difficult to get to the essence. Its easier to stay with the decorative. Its sometimes even beautiful and keeps the audience engaged. But gestures for me are the end of the emotion. The emotion does not lie in them,but in my mind. At a superficial level,when you think of dance and all these gestures coming at you,you say,I dont understand all this. Even I dont understand them when I attend concerts sometimes. It is like dumb charades. Theres a whole bunch of gestures which I dont get. But sometimes,I get the cell phone and all that.

Seema Chishti: Do you do that?
No. I will have to really create some eclectic choreography to get the cell phone in. But I have seen that. And the microwave toothese things pop into our territory. I went to this show and that was the first time I saw the cell phone. So I said wow,now we are trying to make it more contemporary by putting in the cell phone. The language of gestures is so strong that people who make them can get quite carried away. But if you are really regressive and think of women as male property,then no matter whether you use a cell phone or whatever else,the interpretation is retarded,according to me.

Leher Kala: What explains the lack of interest among younger students in classical Indian dance? You hear a lot of students going in for Shiamak Dawar classes.
Yes,he was my senior in school. He was so simple and nondescript,no one looked at him or knew of his great dancing abilities. Its amazing what he has done and found in himself,he is a maha-guru.

Leher Kala: But salsa,hip-hop and tango are the choices that youngsters are going for. What do you suggest to revive interest in classical dances?
It is really a question of temperament. With classical arts,the first few years,when you are going through basic training,its not easy or fun. You dont put on music loud and move to it. It is a different kind of discipline that requires a different mindset. Also,when Bollywood has a tsunami-effect on our lives,it becomes very difficult for the younger generation to think of anything quieter. But Bollywood dancing is great. Sometimes,I have been asked,whose dancing do you like? Then,I have to analyse what I like about Shah Rukh Khan and what I like better about Hrithik Roshan. We sometimes have these discussions in my dance class. So,I have come to the conclusion that Bollywood dancing is easier then classical. So many people can do Bollywood but so few can do classical. Classical requires the discipline of the mind. The energy in classical is satvik. It is dynamic but quiet. Whereas the energy in Bollywood,salsa,hip-hop I dont know what that is is pushing,extrovert,pulsating and thats obviously a high. The revival of classical dance depends upon what parents are talking to their kids. What values they teach? Do they hear classical music? Do they go and see dance performances? Classical dance is losing out. Even in Chennai,there isnt so much interest.

Mahima Kaul: Modern music appeals to youngsters as it tells stories they relate to.
We live life at many levels. I dont see why you can listen to contemporary music whose words and emotions make sense to you but cant also appreciate the quieter streams. I dont see them as being exclusive. If you dont mind a bit of poetry,a bit of metaphor,a bit of dreaming and a bit of wonder in your life,classical arts have a lot to give. When I have gone to schools across India,I have seen that children dont have enough wonder. They dont have enough to wonder about,to be surprised,to be elated or to be excited.

Shailaja Bajpai: In visual arts,we have shifted the gear from classical to abstract. Do you feel that dance too has changed in any manner?
It has changed from being a solo dance form to group work now. I think its also the visual image that we are used to now. Its busy. A solo dancer performing on the stage demands much more attention from the viewer. People are trying to do different things or tell different stories. I have done the story of Timakka,an old village woman in Karnataka. Shes a married labourer waiting endlessly to have children,she has no house and her husband is unwell. She grows banyan trees. After bringing her into my repertoire,I had to make up new words because my vocabulary was not enough to tell her stories. Thats how tradition changes. Its exciting because you are creating an alphabet of movement,thought and action. Tradition can allow change provided it doesnt violate the tradition.

Sweta Dutta: Has Bharatanatyam incorporated gestures,movements or mudras from contemporary dance?
Again,its a question of keeping a balance. When I choreographed a bit on Krishna,I wanted him to break into a dance. What came to my mind was a clip of a Fred Astaire film in which they were just walking and the walk became a dance and then they got on to this wagon. It was a beautiful concept of walking and breaking into a dance. Now,obviously,Krishna cant walk like Fred Astaire. So,I had to change it around. I had to stylise it,which can be only inspirational,not imitative. If you look at a thing that you like very much,it has to strike inside you and then you have to distil it inside you,work on it and find an expressive vocabulary from inside.

Suanshu Khurana: Classical art forms are sacred,so,how do you contemporise your creative energies?
I might do songs and dances on Krishna,but for me Timakka is also sacred. When she sees the seed breaking ground,its the magic of birth which is sacred. Two weeks ago,when I was dancing at the Kala Ghoda festival in Mumbai,I did a few pieces which touched on the essence of harmony. Harmony even in a dance movement gives a sense of sacred. People dont know but they are actually looking for the sacred. They dont seek it but when they see it,they feel it. I have been doing some work in choreography that confronts death,which was never a part of the Bharatanatyam repertoire of the courts. But I am not in court trappings any longer. I have moved away a fair amount from traditional repertoire,which has been man-centric and some of whose songs are trivial.

Leher Kala: Who is your favourite Bollywood dancer?
Among the women,its Kareena Kapoor. She is fantastic,terribly confident and is precise in her movements. Among the men,its Hrithik.

Shekhar Gupta: Have you been able to teach him Bharatanatyam?
I think he might find it difficult. Because it is really quite tough,you know. Bollywood dancing is much easier than Bharatanatyam or other classical dance styles.

Shekhar Gupta: Bollywood dancing has repetitive steps.
Yes,I think it is that hip jhatka going. That is the tough part. Once that is cracked,its pretty easy.

Dhiraj Nayyar: Does the present culture of intolerance worry you? In the West,unlike India,artists are more politically involved.
Because I was doing something on the Ganga,a couple of people came to me. They were against building dams in the upper regions of the Ganga. They gave me a DVD and leaflet and said,could you please think about it. I agreed. If it works and if I can speak through art or make a difference by making people think about it,I say fine. Because in art,there is response,not demand. Through art,if you do something,you can evoke a response and make somebody change,but you dont demand it,it is not a protest in that sense.

Dhiraj Nayyar: How do we assert that tradition is actually liberal?
It is easier to be regressive and fall into condition patterns because it doesnt make you think. It is difficult to think liberally,it calls for much more work on yourself. I think each individual has to do it,perhaps in these spiritual camps,they do it. The saner or tolerant group of people has to necessarily band together or at least create awareness or dialogue of more tolerance. I dont think we have answers on that. I dont think it is easier to change people.

Dhiraj Nayyar: Is there something about being trained as an artiste that makes a person more liberal?
I dont think so. Its to do with how art affects you. Somebody once asked me why theres politics in the world of music and dance and I said that its like any other profession,with a lot of politics and jealousy. There are people who want to do you in,get you out,nudge you out,shove you out and push you down the cliff. But if you are able to see that arts has something else within it and are able to let that percolate into you through the years,thats another world.  

Suanshu Khurana: We have a category of world music and Indian classical musicians are into many collaborations. Can we also have something like world dance?
If two artists really have a great mental rapport and if they feel that by coming together they are going to make something organic and fresh,then I think there is meaning. But if it is just to say that I am going to do my Bharatanatyam movements,you do your jazz music and somebody else comes and plonks on the piano a little bit,I think it is useless.

Coomi Kapoor: You mentioned politics in the dance world and its true that a lot of performances are state-sponsored particularly when they are abroad. We hear all these stories about powerful godfathers playing an important role in a lot of dancers careers.
I think godfathers and godmothers play roles in lots of peoples careers. I dont know if its only dancers or musicians.

Coomi Kapoor: Because in this case Indian Council of Cultural Relations ICCR and state-run institutions have such a prominent role in promoting a dancers career.
I dont think they promote a dancers career because I think that would be giving any single organisation too much importance.

Coomi Kapoor: ICCR decided for many years which dancers should go. It means that you need to be part of a certain club to get your name in there.
I would hope that you have enough merit to have your name put in there but I think ICCR has this empanelment. They have so many artistes who are empanelled and they have their rules and regulations. But it does often happen that certain groups get more concerts. Very often,it happens that the Delhi sort of dancers and groups are more visible than the people living in Trivandrum or even Chennai and Bangalore. I mean,this is the Delhi durbar you know. People sometimes tell me that if you want to get ahead in your career,come and settle in Delhi. I said but I want to go ahead in my dance. I want to go inside with myself. I need to live in Chennai. Yes,there is favouritism but thats there in everything. Tell me one profession where everything is merit-oriented and everything is just excellence.

Amulya Gopalakrishnan: Do you have any idea as to how arts journalism can be revitalised?
We need to have a space where people can talk about the subject. For example,I was not interested in cricket. Then we had all these series on television and they explained something to you with the help of slow motion etc. I started getting to know the nuances of the game and at least appreciating it. If we could have a set-up like that where we could have a talk on dance,where you have a place where you discuss it and we can point out the nuances,it will certainly generate greater appreciation,interest. It needs to be spoken about. So if you can think of some nice new set-up,I am very happy to oblige.
_Transcribed by Suanshu Khurana. For the longer text,log on to https://indianexpress.com