‘We had the numbers, we were sure of a win, but there was some anxiety’

Vayalar Ravi: No. We had the numbers and we were sure of a win. But there was some anxiety. Then the Speaker took a position and told the opposition that they had made a mistake as the whole world was watching the proceedings. It was shameful for Indian politics as Parliament and democracy was ridiculed before the world. He took a strong stand on the matter and said the MPs should have gone to the police station instead. He also told Advani the same thing. Advani agreed but said that he had allowed it deliberately because circumstances demanded it.

•Pranab Dhal Samanta: Did the BJP request that the vote be postponed to another day?

Vayalar Ravi: No. They never made such a request. Going by the rules, voting had to take place. But there was not much time for people like Omar Abdullah, Mehbooba Mufti and Ram Vilas Paswan to speak. I suggested to the Speaker that we extend the time for the vote by one-hour. He said that the Leader of Opposition had to be consulted on this. I spoke to Advani and he agreed. The plane carrying some of their MPs had still not landed and so, they too wanted an extension.

•Abhineet Mishra: Rahul Gandhi had said that there were young people in the BJP who were in favour of the n-deal. Had you lost the trust vote and the BJP came to power, would you have ignored your political interests to support what you now call national interest?

Vayalar Ravi: Advani has repeatedly said that the BJP is not against the deal and that he just wants a re-negotiation. He will probably feel the heat soon when the young MPs ask him for reasons to go against the deal. Young people across party lines have been for the deal.

•Unni Rajen Shanker: You say your job was to keep the flock together. How difficult was it?

Vayalar Ravi: When we started out for this trust vote, we knew one Congressman was already out — Kuldeep Bishnoi. We tried to contact him, but he was evading us. I contacted all the convenors of the party, fixed up a meeting in Delhi. I also contacted all the alliance partners and called for a meeting within 24 hours with chief whips and leaders of all the parties. Last Monday, it became clear that all our 153 MPs were with us. Then we organised meetings with the Congress president on Saturday. The secretaries, CMs, presidents of the alliance partners were invited. Dayanidhi Maran’s being with us threw up a problem for the DMK, but it was dealt with at a different level. The NCP and RJD had no problems; we instilled confidence in our partners. Still, people came to me up to the last day asking, “Is it OK?” and I reassured them. Tension was created after six or seven MPs, including R L Jalappa and Arvind Sharma, were suspected of voting against the Government. We talked to them and Arvind Sharma met Sonia Gandhi and said “sorry”.

•Unni Rajen Shanker: But how did you keep them together? It is not that the rebel MPs did not have problems. Or do you think it was just a media cook-up?

Vayalar Ravi: I called Jalappa when he was in Kerala, undergoing eye treatment. He is an emotional man. I asked him to calm down and told people here that he had an issue: He wanted a seat in the Kerala Assembly and that was not possible. He wanted to meet Sonia Gandhi and we assured him of that. Even Karnataka MP Ambareesh reacted emotionally when I spoke to him. I asked everyone to come to Delhi. Govinda, for instance, was busy with a shoot when I called him; I asked him to come to Delhi and meet Sonia Gandhi. He had some issues, but he came on Saturday. After that things went off smoothly.

•Coomi Kapoor: After all the rumours that the Congress did not have the numbers, you suddenly came out and said that you had the support of 280 MPs. How did you reach to that conclusion?

Vayalar Ravi: We had two from Deve Gowda’s party, 79 MPs from the coalition partners. And ended up with a situation where we had at least 270 MPs.

•Coomi Kapoor: But you did resort to bluffing — especially when you came up with the figure of 280.

Vayalar Ravi: It was a political bluff. Congress MPs asked me if I was sure of the 280 figure and I told them that I was. However, I was sure of 272, especially when I knew Mamata Banerjee and another MP would abstain from voting. But I came up with the figure of 280 to keep out even an iota of suspicion from the minds of our MPs.

•J P Yadav: Who was in-charge of roping in MPs from other parties, after all, some BJP MPs also voted in favour of the Government — was it the responsibility of the Congress or the SP?

Vayalar Ravi: Nobody in the party discussed that with me. I was not in charge of that aspect. The local leadership of the political parties were handling it themselves, especially when it became a battle between the Samajwadi Party and the Bahujan Samaj Party.

•Gayatri Verma: What is your opinion on the practice of expelling MPs who vote against their parties? Don’t you think, in a democracy, they should be allowed to vote against their parties if they do not believe in the cause?

Vayalar Ravi: It is not a new practice in Indian politics. Nobody can claim to be a saint … everybody is a sinner.

•Manoj C G: As the Parliamentary Affairs Minister, how do you view the move by the CPI(M) to expel Somnath Chatterjee from the party?

Vayalar Ravi: It is an unfortunate incident. It only shows that the CPI(M) wants Speakers who work under their thumb and not go by the dictates of Parliament. Somnath Chatterjee has done a wonderful job. I think the CPI(M) made a big mistake by giving his name to the President as one of the MPs who would withdraw support to the Government, without even consulting him on the matter.

•Shekhar Gupta: Who do you think started the horse-trading game?

Vayalar Ravi: I think after the Left-BSP meeting, the game started in UP and we had to respond to that.

•Ravish Tiwari: Who was handling the JMM?

Vayalar Ravi: There was nothing to hide about the deal with the JMM. Soren was an ally earlier too and so the deal with him was dealt with by our leaders in Jharkhand.

•J P Yadav: Why was it so difficult to get the JMM?

Vayalar Ravi: Shibu Soren was probably expecting a minister’s post after the case against him ended. That had not been fulfilled. Soren is representative of the lowest group of Indian society — the tribals. We need to understand his contribution towards the upliftment of a backward society. We need look at him with compassion; he is a good man.

•Dhiraj Nayyar: Do you think Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s image is dented since he had to take the support of the JMM and the SP for the nuclear deal?

Vayalar Ravi: People always rally around a strong leader. My observation is that the younger generation has rallied around the Prime Minister. He has suffered and has been humiliated because of the behaviour of the CPI(M). The younger generation has realised that he is a strong man who has stood up against the odds. The Left played the communal card by saying that Muslims were against the deal. But Omar Abdullah’s speech made clear the actual stance of the Muslims — the deal is not against the Muslims. It is unfortunate that the Left has been initiating hate campaigns across the country by inciting the Muslims. Meanwhile, the BJP wants to re-negotiate the deal to make sure we have the bomb. But we have a minimum deterrent strategy and that is enough. I am against the nuclear bomb; it is criminal and a waste.

•Rakesh Sinha: Can the Congress now say goodbye to any future tie-up with the Left?

Vayalar Ravi: The animosity between the Congress and Left leaders in both Kerala and Bengal has existed for long. But I have to admit that at the Centre, we have been able to implement many programmes that were extremely important with their help. In coalition politics some adjustments have to be made; we made those adjustments. Some programmes could not be implemented, as ideological positions came in between. But other programmes were implemented and we have thanked them for it. The future is hard to predict, but it looks difficult to have an alliance with the present differences.

•Cithara Paul: Do you think Amar Singh will be a better ally than Prakash Karat?

Vayalar Ravi: We did not want to judge who was a better ally. Our intention was to win the battle in an hour of crisis and we got the SP’s support. We only looked at how close the policies of the SP were with ours.

•Dhiraj Nayyar: Given the complicated numbers game, is your government in a position to push through legislation, especially economic legislation? Will you reach out to the BJP to pass the Bills on banking, pension, etc.?

Vayalar Ravi: We will not push for the Bills without convincing the people of the country on the issues. There are differences of opinion within the party on many issues. I, for example, had opposed the Insurance Bill brought in by the NDA, even though my party had supported it. So, we need to be careful with some Bills and party consensus is very important.

•Dhiraj Nayyar: Will differences within the Congress come out more clearly now that the Left is no longer there to be blamed?

Vayalar Ravi: Some policies had to be shelved earlier, like the Unorganised Labour (and Agricultural Workers) Welfare Act because the Left had issues with a few clauses of the Act. We want to pass it in this session because it is an important Bill concerning welfare measures for millions of labourers. There are Bills for banking and insurance sectors that are pending. We have repeatedly emphasised the need to implement many Bills for the states. The Pension Bill needs a debate. I have issues with some clauses of the Bill, as I have been a trade union leader myself and know the issue well.

•Manoj C G G: Did you ever regret taking the support of the Left parties, given the fact that they had been creating roadblocks?

Vayalar Ravi: Some tensions were there, but there are no regrets. Our idea was to implement welfare programmes like the National Rural Employment Guarantee scheme. So we always appreciated the support from the Left.

•Shekhar Gupta: What is the political situation in Kerala? Who do you think will win the next elections?

Vayalar Ravi: We will win and come back with more than 12 seats (minimum required for majority). The education and health sectors have long remained un-addressed in the state and of late, the law and order situation has been bad too. The unfortunate thing is that the RSS is gaining because of the violent protests. The CPI(M) cadres have also refrained from attacking the BJP cadres directly and have instead decided to target us. The Muslim League will play an important role in effecting a swing of the masses and we are working things out.

Transcript prepared by Arpit Parashar