Nitin Gadkari at Idea Exchange: ‘A strong Opposition is good for a democracy, we need to work together’

The most important thing is to increase our exports and reduce our imports. In two years, we will be the number one manufacturer of semiconductors in the world. Today we export mobile phones. The size of the automobile industry is Rs 22 lakh crore from Rs 7 lakh crore when I took over. Four months ago, we overtook Japan in becoming the third-largest automobile manufacturer in the world. I am confident that in 2030, we will be the second. Right now, the first is the USA, the second is China, and third is India. By 2030, I expect our electric vehicle (EV) industry to be worth Rs 20 lakh crore. If we look at the alternative fuel and biofuel sector, we import fossil fuels at Rs 22 lakh crore. I am confident that by adopting the policy of alternative fuel and biofuel — ethanol, methanol, biodiesel, bio LNG, bio CNG, electric and hydrogen — we will be in a position to reduce our imports.

If we look at our GDP (gross domestic product), the major contribution comes from the service sector, between 52 and 54 per cent, about 24 per cent comes from the manufacturing sector and only 12 per cent from agriculture. Yet about 72 per cent of the population practises agriculture. Ethanol is helping them supplement their incomes. In Panipat, Indian Oil is making bioethanol and sustainable aviation fuel.

So the government has taken different policies to strengthen the lower and middle-income group, pulled out 25 crore people from the below poverty line (BPL) category. That’s progress.

ON BJP’S POST-POLL IMAGE | The BJP has been dealing with this question of image versus reality and ground reality versus perception for a really long time. But the reality is people still believe in us regardless of the party or the politician

Union Minister of Road Transport and Highways Nitin Gadkari (right) in conversation with Liz Mathew at the Noida office of The Indian Express. (Photo by Renuka Puri)

Liz Mathew: Then why did the BJP face a setback in terms of the number of seats in the Lok Sabha election?

This election was about either convincing or confusing the people. First, the Opposition did a whisper campaign to confuse the voters, saying that the BJP was against Dr B R Ambedkar and that it would change the Constitution. Its leaders created fear, particularly among the backward classes, that their benefits would no longer continue. Second, our measures meant to benefit farmers were misinterpreted as being against them.

Ultimately, I feel that the Lok Sabha election was a victory for India. The BJP is back in government and I am 100 per cent confident that we will get a good majority in the forthcoming elections in the four states. People have reposed confidence in the BJP that it is capable, has a proven track record and can change the future of this country. You can compare 60 years of the Congress with 15 years of the BJP in terms of performance. You will get the answer.

ON GREEN TRANSPORT | We need to encourage fuels and technology that are in the wider interest of the country. Ultimately, the cost of EVs will
come down because of increased production of lithium ion batteries and other components

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Liz Mathew: Since the election result was unexpected for the BJP, why haven’t we seen any change or course-correction in the party yet?

Ours is a democratic party and the party president has discussed the issue with the people concerned. There is a distribution of work and division of powers in the party and dialogue is a continuous process during meetings. I am 100 per cent confident that the future of the party is very good.

Union Minister of Road Transport and Highways Nitin Gadkari.

Liz Mathew: When we talk to party MPs across states, we sense disappointment or disillusionment because they do not see any major changes in the leadership or in the organisation. Do you think the party will have a working president?

Everybody is working for the party and there is a good atmosphere. Some election results have been good, some have not been in line with our expectations. Democracy is a continuous process and we should be part and parcel of this system.

Liz Mathew: Why was your letter to Finance Minister Nirmala Sitharaman, requesting withdrawal of GST on life and medical insurance premiums following pleas by the Nagpur Divisional Life Insurance Corporation Employees’ Union, made public? Shouldn’t correspondence between Cabinet Ministers be kept private? Of course, now there is a Group of Ministers (GoM) to look into GST rate cuts on health insurance.

Neither am I given to indiscipline, nor do I indulge in politics. The letter was indeed confidential and written with good intention. When the delegation came to meet me, I immediately told my private secretary to prepare a letter requesting the FM to consider their plea as an important issue. After sending the letter to the FM, my office gave a copy to the delegation without my knowledge. They did it innocently as I write many such letters to officials. The delegation gave it to the Press. That was the problem.

Anil Sasi: Why are road accidents rising? Is there a problem with road design, engineering or funding? You even appealed to the auto industry to use CSR funds towards educating people about driving norms.

There are many reasons for rising road accidents — road engineering, defective DPR [daily project report] and giving tenders to the operator who quotes the lowest price. Now we have changed the policy and the lowest bidder cannot get the work order. We are spending Rs 40,000 crore to identify black spots (zones of frequent traffic accidents) and have improved 8,000 such accident-prone areas. We have to address 12,000 more black spots. I have spoken to IIT engineers and asked them to build road divisions that can protect even those attempting dangerous stunts. The problem is human behaviour. I have been trying my level best for the last 10 years; we are reducing accidents but the percentage is very low.

ON BJP VERSUS CONGRESS | People are confident that the BJP is capable, has a proven track record and can change the future of this country. You can compare 60 years of the Congress with 15 years of the BJP

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Anil Sasi: EVs are currently at the lowest bracket in terms of the GST rate. There’s a big gap between that and other technologies like flex and low hybrid. Why so?

We need to encourage fuels and technology that are in the wider interest of the country. Ultimately, the cost of EVs will come down because of increased production of lithium ion batteries and other components. For one bus, the cost of the lithium ion battery is Rs 40 lakh. So when it is reduced to Rs 22 or 24 lakh, the bus will become cheaper to buy. The cost of a lithium ion battery was $150 per kilowatt per hour. It’s down to $105 per kilowatt per hour. Now Tata, Adani, Suzuki, Panasonic and Ola are manufacturing lithium-ion batteries in India. I am expecting that in two years, the cost of an electric car, bus, scooter or auto-rickshaw will be the same as the petrol and diesel variants. For that initial push, it is good to give incentives. Now with LNG (liquefied natural gas) trucks, you can save Rs 12 lakh compared with the diesel. As we develop alternative fuels and biofuel, costs will come down. The government is encouraging different types of technology, and the automobile industry is doing an excellent job.

Union Minister of Road Transport and Highways Nitin Gadkari.

Shyamlal Yadav: The BJP has become so big in the last few years that it doesn’t need any outside support. Party president JP Nadda had openly said that the BJP no longer needs the support of the RSS. For watchers like us, it feels that the RSS is sometimes a liability for the BJP, sometimes an asset. Naddaji had said the BJP and the RSS need to do their respective work. What do you think?

I think you’ve already said it very well and there is no need for me to talk.

Shyamlal Yadav: A lot of third and fourth-generation leaders of political families look at the BJP as a springboard to get a ticket. This has miffed several BJP workers. Is that a problem?

I have never done dynastic politics. None of my family members is in politics. I told them that whatever my parents and I have earned is theirs. But it is only my workers who are entitled to my political inheritance. Having said that, being someone’s son or daughter is neither a crime nor an asset till they have proven their worth to party workers, who may request a ticket for them if they are good enough and have their collective faith. Even in politics, only the one with merit will go forward. It won’t be right if we deprive someone of their legitimate and genuine right to be leader because they are someone’s children.

Union Minister of Road Transport and Highways Nitin Gadkari.

Liz Mathew: But isn’t nepotism the BJP’s main plank?

When parents demand that their children be given tickets, that’s a problem.

Coomi Kapoor: After the parliamentary elections, some people in Delhi felt that you should be in charge of the Maharashtra Assembly elections but you were not inclined. Why?

Nothing like that. I’ll do whatever the party asks of me. During the Lok Sabha elections, I toured 55 Lok Sabha areas (kshetra), cancelling my nationwide rallies.

Coomi Kapoor: Although you say the Modi government is well-settled, somehow there is a perception that it won’t last the full five years. How will you get rid of this perception?

The BJP has been dealing with this question of image versus reality and ground reality versus perception for a really long time. But the reality is people still believe in us regardless of the party or the politician. Nobody hits a century in every match. But we will get people’s support decisively and advance the nation.

Union Minister of Road Transport and Highways Nitin Gadkari.

Harikishan Sharma: Recently, Prime Minister Modi told all his ministers to expand the “reform, perform and transform” mantra to include “inform” or reach out to the public about the government’s good work. How are you and your colleagues trying to implement that?

It is true that our ministry has no PR. We get no news coverage for our good work and call nobody. We do 10 rupees worth of work and don’t even get a rupee’s worth of interest. The PM has said that the good work that has been done for the people should be communicated to them.

Harish Damodaran: You are passionate about biofuels but can we sustain them in India where there is a conflict between food and fuel? You recently stopped the use of sugarcane juice and rice for biofuels. Ultimately, we have to feed 140 crore people.

The biggest problem is that Delhi, from the government to the media, is urban-centric. You don’t understand the concerns of villages, the poor and labourers. The two policies that you mentioned were temporary. In our country sugar is always surplus. The price of sugar in the world is Rs 49/kg. Here, it’s Rs 36/kg. Similarly, there is a surplus of wheat and rice. In UP, potatoes are thrown away at Re 1. In Nasik, onions are thrown away for peanuts. In Punjab and Haryana, three years ago, there was no place to keep rice, they were being kept on railway station platforms. When there is a temporary aberration and onion is priced at Rs 50, it makes front page news. But when onion prices crash and fall to Re 1 and are thrown away, there’s no news. Farmers don’t get their minimum price and commit suicide when they are debt-trapped. They need to supplement their income. Biofuels do that for them. So much ethanol is being produced in the country, has there been a food shortage? Crop productivity is increasing and there is a lot of land.

Union Minister of Road Transport and Highways Nitin Gadkari.

Mukesh Jagota: What is the status of the Bharatmala project as no new projects are currently being undertaken. So, has it been abandoned because of escalated costs?

All the projects have begun to be cleared. They have been included in the PM’s Vision Viksit Bharat@2047. Projects worth Rs 51,000 crore were cleared at a recent meeting and projects worth Rs 50,000 crore are in process. By December, I will complete projects worth Rs 2 lakh crore.

Mukesh Jagota: There was talk of NHAI setting up a new Infrastructure Investment Trust (InvIT).

The IPO (initial public offering) of InvIT was a success, oversubscribed by about eight times. There’s no dearth of money in this country. There’s a dearth of people working with integrity.

Mukesh Jagota: What is the status of the GIS (Geographic Information System)-backed real time monitoring of wait times at toll plazas that would do away with boom barriers and ease traffic congestion?

The global tender has started and five pilot projects have been successful. But nothing is official yet. It used to take nine hours to travel from Mumbai to Pune. After the new highway was made, it now takes only two hours. There are savings in time and fuel and in exchange there is the toll. This is why I can do Rs 5 lakh crore worth of work a year when my budget is only Rs 2 lakh crore. When you want good services, you have to pay for them. There is no exploitation involved.

In high-density traffic areas, we don’t apply toll to scooters, tractors and auto-rickshaws but we do apply it to trucks, buses and cars. We get a higher toll in economically developed states of Karnataka, Andhra, Maharashtra and Tamil Nadu. In Bihar and UP, we don’t get as much. So we get compensated that way. We take toll from those who can give and have created toll-free roads for the poor.

We are even giving monthly passes for short stretches. The current problem stems from the fact that the toll is for 70 km but a person has to pay the full amount even if they are travelling only 20 km. Now a camera will take a picture of your number plate on entry and exit and you will only have to pay as much as you have travelled.

Union Minister of Road Transport and Highways Nitin Gadkari.

Nikhil Ghanekar: After the Char Dham Project was implemented in Uttarakhand, construction activity has led to landslides. Do you need to do some rethink on this project as it is happening in a very fragile area?

Close to 700 km have been completed in the Char Dham project. The remaining 180-km stretch is in the Bhagirathi Eco-Sensitive Zone. The Himalayas are very fragile here. We’ve consulted some experts from Austria and Switzerland, where there are similar issues. There is also a Supreme Court-appointed committee where I have given my opinion. We will ensure that the mountain doesn’t fall on people. There is a suggestion on making tunnels. We are rethinking the way to go about it.

Vandita Mishra: You are among those BJP leaders who do not consider the Opposition the enemy or anti-national. In that context, is a strong Opposition better for polity? Or was it better earlier when the BJP was dominant in the House?

We are the world’s biggest democracy. The Prime Minister says we are the “mother of democracy.” And in the four pillars of democracy there is the judiciary, the media, legislature and the executive. And in a democracy, there is the ruling party and the Opposition party. Just like wheels of a car or train, both are important and need to be balanced. We are privileged that we’ve been in the Opposition and are now in the government, too. Sabka saath, sabka vishwas, sabka prayas (With everybody, with collective faith and effort) — this is the sentiment that we must have. It’s the job of the Opposition to shout out loud.

Vandita Mishra: But is a strong Opposition good for the country?

It’s good for democracy. And politics is an instrument of socio-economic power. We need to work together.