Mallikarjun Kharge interview: ‘That issue (of G-23) is over… They are all supporting me’

Kharge: In a democracy we have to work according to the wishes of the people. The (PCC) delegates know what benefit or loss it (my presidency) will have. And the leaders also know. I have been working in this organisation for 55 years. So they know it better. I am contesting the election on their request. They must have thought about the plus and minus.

* But what difference do you think you bring to the Congress table?

Kharge: What difference do you expect, you tell me… We have so many programmes to implement. For example, the Udaipur declaration (of the party). In May, we took everybody’s opinion, there were six committees, their expertise, thinking, opinion were put into that… After that, the (Udaipur) shivir declared certain programmes. I will implement those. They are new programmes, they are not old… programmes for the youth, women, SCs, STs and others, to strengthen the organisation, training on the ideology we believe in… These things I will do.

* Many people, even Congress sympathisers, say the party is not stepping up to the plate as an Opposition. The party’s vote share has come down to 19% from 28-29%.

Kharge: Let us see, we have to work together, not individually. The question of ‘I’ does not come. John F Kennedy was once asked, ‘After you become President, what will you do for me?’. And Kennedy said, ‘Don’t ask what I can do for you but together what we can do for the country’. So instead of asking me what you will do, let us together do what we can for the country and the party.

* A section of the people think what the Congress needs is newness. You are perceived as a symbol of the old system.

Kharge: What is newness? The Udaipur Chintan Shivir gave so many guidelines. We will go by those… Youth below 50 will be given 50% seats, as much as possible. Efforts will be made for women empowerment. The gap between the rich and the poor is widening, inflation and unemployment are on the rise, the rupee is falling… we have to fight against all this together.

(But) this, this is our internal election… X will come or Y will come, ultimately, collectively we have to work. One man can’t do everything…. The party will take everybody into confidence and wherever there is consensus on issues… those will be implemented.

* Do you see a role for Shashi Tharoor under your presidency? What role will you give him?

Kharge: I don’t want to enter into a controversy, whom I can make and all that. I trust in working. And we have to work together. Whatever the Working Committee and other people decide, that will be taken further… I believe in collective leadership.

* There are several state elections coming up before the 2024 Lok Sabha polls. Gujarat and Himachal Pradesh will go to polls in two months. What would be the milestones leading up to 2024 for you?

Kharge: The Congress president is already at work. Screening committee meetings are on, decisions have been taken, our observers deployed… They have prepared a roadmap for fighting the election… Of course, we will try to increase our seats… I will take cooperation from everybody. If somebody refuses to give, that is a different thing… That is, after the (Congress presidential) election. My manifesto now is whatever direction has already been given, we have to first implement it to bring change. Not simply talking.

* The Congress is set to have a non-Gandhi president after two-and-a-half decades. It is going to be a new experience for a large section of the party. How will this experiment work?

Kharge: Don’t call it an experiment… Everybody is allowed to file a nomination. Everybody is allowed to propagate their views, contact the delegates. It is a free election.

* How will a non-Gandhi presidency work?

Kharge: Without the Gandhis, you can’t (operate)… you have to take their guidance. They have sacrificed for this country. Even the positions (they have taken)… When Mrs (Sonia) Gandhi got a majority, many people asked her to lead the government. She didn’t. Here we people are fighting for small elections, and small positions… If they don’t get, they are angry and blame the Gandhi family. It is your duty. In each state, our people are powerful. Almost 80-90% decisions are taken by state committees. One or two changes may be made in the election committee or the Working Committee. I don’t know why the Gandhi family is always blamed.

They are afraid of Rahul Gandhi… When he is walking… thousands and lakhs of people are joining him. That is why the BJP and RSS are criticising him… that Rahul Gandhi is undertaking the yatra to break Bharat. It is these people who have divided the country and society… His (Rahul’s) prime duty is to protect the Constitution and democracy, and at the same time to convey that from Kanyakumari to Kashmir and from Bengal to Saurashtra, we are one and we should protect our democracy and the Constitution. (This) is not for an election. Had it been for elections, NGOs would not have joined, farmers, industrial experts, technocrats would not have joined.

* The Yatra is in its second month now. Is it Rahul Gandhi’s yatra or the Congress’s yatra? And how has it helped the two?

Kharge: It is the Congress party’s… Rahul Gandhi decided to walk 3,500 km… and the Congress will benefit. Because every person from a village is joining… He (Rahul) is giving our party strength.

* You are a staunch Gandhi family loyalist. At the same time you have a strong independent mind too. So will the Gandhis be consulted before each and every decision once you become the president?

Kharge: It is not necessary each and every (time). But the long experience of Sonia Gandhi, 20 years as party president, two years of Rahul Gandhi… they know the people in every nook and corner of the country. In each state they know 100-200 people… They have done good things like the food security Act, compulsory education, NREGA, RTI, all these Acts brought by Sonia Gandhi… You want that I should not take guidance from her? She is a key player in the Congress. It is not (about) simply a family, but commitment to a certain ideology… That work and ideology have helped the country have peace, equality and liberty.

* There is talk of remote control.

Kharge: There is no question of asserting, or not asserting. To run the party effectively, to strengthen the party, whenever guidance is required or suggestions, we will take them. And we will approach (them) also… If my party is to be strengthened, if my party has to emerge, then their guidance is necessary. The work they are doing is beneficial…. ‘Main independent karunga, main kisi ka bi nahin sunoonga… Aise thodi hota hai (I will be independent, I won’t listen to anyone… That’s not how it should be).’… Their guidance is necessary because they have made sacrifices… When difficulties arise, humko janaa hai, poochna hai, yeh sab karna padta hai politics mein (we need to go, consult them, all this has to be done in politics).

* What will the role of the Gandhis be post the October 19 result of the Congress presidential election?

Kharge: The Gandhis, they are Congress people, they have given a lot to the party… Without their guidance, advice, can we work?… Kya karna hai, kaise karna hai, zaroor hum poochenge. Ab ismein koi sharmaane ki baat nahin hain (What has to be done, how it has to be done, we will surely ask. There is nothing to be ashamed about in that)… They know what is good and what is bad… They are our leaders.

* Leaders of the G-23 are supporting you. Do you see merit in any of the demands which they made in their August 2020 letter to Sonia Gandhi?

Kharge: Wo toh baat khatam ho gayi (That issue is over)… They are all supporting me, they have become proposers now, are working in their states… When something is finished, why rake it up?

* But what about their demands?

Kharge: That is what I am saying. Jo cheezen band ho gayeen hain, usko aap mat chhediye (Don’t stir things that have died down). We all will work together. And whatever is possible, whosoever has demanded it, we will do. And because the election is on, I don’t want to talk about policy issues.

* Will you as Congress president hold elections to the CWC? Elections to the CWC were last held in 1997, and before that in 1992 – a non-Gandhi was president both times. So will you push for elections or go by the consensus view?

Kharge: Wherever we can have consensus, we will have consensus. Where election is needed, there is a Congress constitution, we will go by that.

* Will you insist?

Kharge: I said I believe in collective leadership and collective consultation.

* Will you dismantle the high command culture, of all decisions being taken in Delhi? Before coming to the centre, you were also a stalwart state leader.

Kharge: What is this talk about high command, high command? The District Congress Committee recommends some things, then the PCC does, then it comes here. Election matters are decided in the election committee, policy matters in the Working Committee. After that, if there is an option for something good, it is conveyed. So where is this high command culture? The person who becomes president consults everybody. That ‘X’ is not good for this, ‘Y’ is ok… that is conveyed sometimes… So this thing that all was done by the high command… it is wrong… Suppose I am there, how would the high command or the Working Committee know what is happening in my interior panchayat, constituencies? The feedback comes from the ground.

* But what happened in Punjab and now in Rajasthan? The way Amarinder Singh was removed as Chief Minister, and now the rebellion by party workers in Rajasthan. The perception is that the high command is taking every decision.

Kharge: I don’t want to go into whatever has happened… Let the election take place and after that… we will sit and talk.

* Will you as Congress president reach out to other parties, bring in other parties and, if needed, give leadership roles to them?

Kharge: I can only say that let the election take place first. Such decisions have to be taken collectively… But it is certain that without the Congress, nothing is going to happen.

* Did Sonia Gandhi speak to you before you filed your nomination? You resigned as Leader of Opposition in the Rajya Sabha.

Kharge: No, I didn’t meet her to give the resignation or to become a candidate.

* You did not join the Bharat Jodo Yatra which is travelling through your home state Karnataka right now. Any reason?

Kharge: I wanted to, but local leaders said you are fighting the Congress president election, it is better to avoid this.

* Would you be like former Congress president Kamaraj, or Jagjivan Ram or D K Barooah (a fierce loyalist), who held the post?

Kharge: I don’t know much about their working. What I am, I am, and whatever work is given to me, I will do. What the party tells me collectively, I will do.

* Do you think the Congress should project a PM face in 2024?

Kharge: Let the organisational elections be over. After that when there are general elections, the MPs who get elected, they will decide. How can I say beforehand who is going to be the CM face, the PM face and all. Yeh baad ki baat hai. Election main kya strategy karna hai pehle karna hai. Chunke aane ke baad, kitne sang main aayenge uske upar bi nirbar hota hai (These are things for later. Now, we have to figure out the election strategy. After we have won, how many come with us, that also will decide things).

* But don’t you think people should have clarity on who the challenger to Narendra Modi will be? They can make an informed decision then.

Kharge: See, this election is limited to within the (Congress) family. Tharoor and I are fighting, he is my younger brother. All these things will be decided after this election.

* You told Tharoor it would be better had there been consensus.

Kharge: He called to congratulate me. Consensus can be on anybody’s name. Yes I did say it would be better if there was consensus. He said the election should be held in a democratic way, and that is happening, and he wants to take part. I said fine. When so many delegates have told me to contest, should I run away from an election? And you saw the number of people who supported me on nomination day.

* But the large number of leaders who proposed your name and were by your side when you filed the nomination… it gave the impression that you are the establishment candidate.

Kharge: That is the perception of you people. Jab poore log mil ke mere ko karna chaahte hain (When all of them together want to support me)… how can I say don’t come, that there will be such a perception?

* Who will succeed you as the Leader of Opposition, Rajya Sabha?

Kharge: All these things I cannot decide individually. I will consult everyone and the decision will be taken collectively.