Only one solution: Pakistan has to come across openly and honestly to deliver

At the Information and Broadcasting ministry; I stepped in because of Priyaranjan ???Dasmunsi8217;s grave illness four months ago. Major decisions have been made,many of the pending issues resolved including the problems regarding the Prasar Bharati employees which was not resolved for 12 years.

My endeavour in both the ministries has been to ensure that decisions are taken quickly and delays are cut out. One thing which I don8217;t like is complacency or delays. We must restore people8217;s faith in the efficiency of the system. I have had no problem in carrying the officials along. It8217;s a democratic consultation,a horizontal integration.

amp;149;Saubhik Chakrabarti: Would it be fair to say at this point,that whatever Pakistan does now on the Mumbai attack issue,we will not get a resolution satisfactory to the Indian government?

There cannot be two solutions. There can be only one solution 8211; that Pakistan comes across openly and honestly to deliver on the commitments and assurances that it has given to India bilaterally and also to the international community. The satisfactory solution could have been the handing over of the masterminds who have been identified and named not only by us but by other countries including USA,UK,Germany,by the UN Security Council itself. But it is very clear that there has been denial,deflection,obfuscation on the part of Pakistan. And that raises a question mark over whether they have the will and seriousness to dismantle the terror syndicate that operates from Pakistan,which,eventually,threatens this entire region and the world. We will continue in our pursuit to see that this part of the Earth becomes a safer place. To realize that,all the countries in this region will have to make great effort,Pakistan in particular.

amp;149;Saubhik Chakrabarti: Have we given up on Pakistan actually delivering anything substantive?

So far Pakistan has not demonstrated that seriousness or sincerity,which is most unfortunate.

amp;149;Saubhik Chakrabarti: So is there any ground for assuming that it might come about?

It would be in the interest of Pakistan itself.

amp;149;Saubhik Chakrabarti: From the point of view of your government and from the point of view of the country,is there any reason to assume that the pattern might change given what we are seeing from Islamabad?

Given their track record,much was not expected. So far,much has not changed. The organizations which were banned,proscribed by the United Nations,whether it is the Jamat-ud-Dawa,Lashkar-e-Taiba,Jaish-e-Mohammad?????,all these organizations are banned but they have a free run also. It8217;s about changing the signboards,locking the front gate and opening the side door. That is truly disturbing and disappointing. They have to get out of the denial mode and accept that they the terrorists are their nationals,that they must take action.

Had they done it on day one they would not have had any tension. There was no reason why any state should delay in taking action even when the UN Security Council asked them to take action. They say these were non-state actors. Then why should there be any effort to delay bringing them to justice? So there are many questions that have come up.

amp;149;Soma: Last March,the Secretary Iamp;B had said the HITS?Headend-in-the-Sky HITS,a satellite-based digital delivery platform to distribute multiple channels to9 cable operators policy will be out in 30 days. It8217;s been over 300 days now so when will we see the HITS policy?

We have already cleared it. We are going to send it to the Cabinet. HITS is important because we have problems in our country when it comes to cable networks 8212; even the guidelines are dated back to 1995. After that there has been an exponential growth in the industry. We have 417 channels and more than 200 channels have been categorized as news and current affairs channels. When you have such an explosion and growth taking place and also the convergence of technologies,then policy decisions have to be made. We have to see whether cable operators are carrying the mandatory channels,whether they are generating their own news. Civil societies has its own concerns particularly by what the cable operators put out themselves. So there are many issues.

Another area is CAS Conditional Access System. One question raised is why CAS is only in designated areas in the four metropolis. Out of 25 lakhs who were meant to be covered merely 7 lakh got covered. And the recommendations of the Telecom Regulatory Authority want it taken to 55 cities but there is resistance because people would not like to pay for a set top box. Also,the multi-system operators and DTH operators,they give a bouquet is that consumer-friendly or not? For the pay channels in particular,there are the encryption devices which are there with the cable operators and cable operators are tens of thousands in number. They don8217;t need a license. They just go to a post office and get themselves registered. The pay channels,the broadcasters do not get their fee because there is no way to check how many subscribers are viewing what are meant to be the pay channels. If we go for digitalization,for one-way digitalization,just for down link it would cost Rs 15,000 crores,for two-way it is Rs 40,000 crores. Now HITS will bring about a quick change. The quality of picture will be good and it is a major step towards digitalization and also in keeping the necessary checks particularly on the cable operators for violations of piracy,etc.

amp;149;Dheeraj Nayyar: One of the big stories in international diplomacy in the last 10-15 years has been China8217;s aggressive foray into Africa. Do you think we have been a bit slow off the mark in reaching out to Africa compared to China?

India8217;s engagement with Africa is time-tested,it is rooted in history. There is a better understanding about India in Africa. And if I can just use one word,India is trusted. India has identified itself with the struggle of Africa,we have been there acting in solidarity when they were in pain,when they were brutally suppressed,right from the days of Mahatma Gandhi. After what Gandhi started there,he came back to India,he led us through our freedom struggle and the independence of India,which also triggered a wave of freedom movements in Asia and in Africa,in particular. We have been a partner in Africa8217;s progress and development,open and willing to share our resources,our experience,our technology. India8217;s engagement,therefore,is distinct and different from the engagement of any country with Africa,including China or for that matter the countries in Europe and in Americas.

At another level,we started sharing our resources,we started scholarship schemes,the I T programme and in these last four-five decades,tens of thousands of students from Africa have come to India studied in our institutions and then they have gone back. That was the wisdom of our leadership which invested in human resources in Africa.

Even today,our priority engagement is in capacity-building There are 50,000 African students studying in India even now,there are scholarships at even IITs and IIMs. In addition to giving the scholarships,we are taking dedicated batches. If there is any request which we receive from any country in Africa,if they want to be trained in administration,accounting,banking,international diplomacy and particularly when it comes to training people to negotiate treaties and conventions globally be it the WTO or various UN bodies,India is a pioneer and a leader in assisting Africa.

In addition,we have encouraged both the public sector and the private sector to go there. The Indian private sector has followed the same ethical practices and that is the difference. If you see an Indian project coming up,the executing company would be the local companies. Employment is generated for the local people,they are enabled and they are trained. There are many Indian companies which have invested in Africa in different fields,whether it is IT or pharmaceuticals. They have picked up raw graduates from the universities,brought them to India,trained them and taken them back. So it is truly empowering the local people. And also it generates income. This is recognized very clearly. Another important area where India took the initiative was in pharmaceuticals in Africa. The suffocating stranglehold of the multinationals was broken by the Indians and the battleground was again Africa where for one patient8217;s anti-retro-virals?? for one year the cost was about 11-12000 dollars. It is now close to 600.

Pan African e-network project is a shining example of India8217;s partnership with Africa. It is a gifted Indian satellite to help sub-Saharan Africa bridge the digital divide for e-connectivity.

Institutions,hospitals in seven distinct regions in Africa have been linked with super-specialty hospitals of India,universities of Africa have been linked with the major universities of India,it is a major leap in tele-education and tele-medicine. Africa recognizes and appreciates this as a gift of the Indian people. There is no burden on the countries of Africa. Last year,we had the first summit after Independence with Africa 8212; the India-Africa partnership summit. We did it along with the Africa??? Union. And that summit declaration articulated the African leadership8217;s and the Indian leadership8217;s shared position on many global issues. It was at that summit that the Prime Minister announced the doubling of the scholarships,we increased the lines of credit to 5.4 billion dollars over a period of four years. Whatever we are doing,we are taking them along.

We have truly intensified and deepened our engagement with the African continent,with Latin America and the entire Caribbean region.

amp;149;Dheeraj Nayyar: India8217;s policy towards Myanmar changed. We supported Aung San Su Kyi??? but due to Chinese pressure and Chinese exploitation of commercial interests in Myanmar we had to engage with the military leadership. Is China8217;s aggression eventually going to force us to be not so nice to Africa?

I don8217;t think so. Look at our neighbourhood. We do not have the luxury and comfort of a quiet,benign neighbourhood. Our problem is that we cannot afford to be prescriptive to one neighbour and not to the other. We had a military dictatorship in Pakistan until recently.

Similarly,there was the military in Bangladesh until the elections were held. Therefore,as a matter of policy we are non-prescriptive.

As far as India is concerned we will support democracy. In Myanmar we have been impressing upon having an inclusive regime and taking forward the processes of reform by taking everyone along. Every country8217;s foreign policy takes into account its own security,its own strategic national interests. When we say we engage with the world,our engagement with one country is not at the cost of the other. A country like India,given our profile,has to conduct a foreign policy which reaches out to the world,influences important events. That is what India is seeking to do.

amp;149;Anubhuti Vishnoi: The Iamp;B ministry wasn8217;t happy with the media coverage of the Mumbai attacks. Do you think that the self-regulatory authority broadcasters have come up with would be an effective watchdog in situations similar to Mumbai?

It was not that the Ministry of Iamp;B wasn8217;t happy but the government or the ministry has a responsibility. When the Mumbai carnage was going on,the coverage was 24215;7. There were mistakes made by the administration. There should have been standard protocols,authorized spokespersons,areas should have been sanitized as it is done elsewhere in the world.

But there were sharp reactions from the civil society on the media coverage and equally strong reactions from the judiciary and a public statement from the Chief Justice of India???. On 27 November,after we received a written communication from the security agencies and in one particular case demanding action under the National Security Act,as a channel had telecast an interview with a terrorist. What I did was to facilitate an interface. That same afternoon we called in the captains of the electronic media,and stakeholders from the government from security to MEA 8212; that helped in sensitizing both the sides to each others concerns. The broadcasters8217; association said they would make amends.

amp;149;Anubhuti Vishnoi: If there is no Broadcasting Bill,will the Standing Committee be empowered to take action?

We want to address this issue by consensus,by consultations. In January,there was a very strong reaction from the electronic media when they met with the political leadership. I was present when they met the Prime Minister. One thing is clear: there was no Cabinet note ever moved on regulating the electronic media. It was a discussion paper of the committee of secretaries. The government functions in many layers and what was being discussed was an emergency protocol for a situation like Mumbai. At no stage has the political leadership,the Ministry of Iamp;B ever contemplated even indirectly,regulating the content of news. We are for the freedom of the media,the electronic media. At the same time there has to be some regulatory mechanism self-regulation is always the best regulation. I am very clear in my mind that no freedom is unfettered. Freedom brings with it the demand of responsibility and that I hope is appreciated. We would like our news channels to give us hard news. We would like to see Indian channels be like the BBC,CNN. You don8217;t hear jingles of talcum powder ads on them,you get news. We would like the Indian media to have a global presence,to shape public opinion and influence events.

amp;149;Alia Aliana: In the UAE,20,000 people have been fired following the recession. They have no laws,no guidelines on how to treat people from India. We have done nothing for our people.

That is not true but we have to look at the larger global picture. There are mounting job losses in USA. The number is now closer to perhaps what it was during the Great Depression. It8217;s the same in Europe. So it8217;s not just in the Gulf that it is happening to the Indians. But we are worried the Ministry of Overseas Indian Affairs has already created a special fund to deal with these eventualities.

We hope that the situation improves but in the foreseeable future it does not look like that. But Indians are not being singled out and sent back. It is worrisome,however,since we have a large number of Indian citizens in the Gulf and their remittances are huge.

amp;149;Vandita Mishra: You once headed the NSUI…

I was the general secretary of the NSUI. I am one of the founders of NSUI but I never made it to the President of NSUI. I was the President of the Indian Youth Congress.

amp;149;Vandita Mishra: We8217;ve heard a lot about Rahul Gandhi8217;s initiatives to democratize the Youth Congress and the NSUI and he8217;s already done this in Punjab and Uttarakhand. What took so long to democratize youth politics in the Congress?

It is not that it took so long. Many of us came through the movements on the campuses whether it was Dasmunsi,Ghulam Nabi Azad,AK Antony,YLR Ravi??? or the late Rangarajan Kumaramangalam???,Ashok Gahlot even Bhupinder Hooda. All of us we were in the students8217; movement,then we moved into the youth movement. All of us came from ordinary backgrounds. None of us had any political patronage. And we made it to the top because at that time an individual8217;s ability or merit was recognized. Slowly,a situation developed where state leaders,once they saw the influence of the Youth Congress,they had to have their own nominees and so you had somebody8217;s nephew,somebody8217;s this or that and the movement became very weak. What Rahul Gandhi is doing is the correct way. Rahul Gandhi has brought with this approach a wave of freshness. So many young men and women have come into the party in these two states and elsewhere. There is open membership and there is a vetting system. But it8217;s not that somebody is sitting at home filling up membership forms for 100 people,which used to happen. That has been done away with and an identity card is now issued. I feel that the I-Card system should be there in the Congress Party also.

amp;149;Anubhuti Vishnoi: Will you allow news and current affairs on FM radio?

Not at present. They can carry the news but that has to be Prasar Bharati,All India Radio bulletins or PTI.

amp;149;Dheeraj Nayyar: You are a minister of state. Do you think this is a greatly under-utilized office in the government of India?

In the Ministry of External Affairs,my area of responsibility has been very clearly demarcated from day one. I first worked directly with the Prime Minister and after that when Pranab Mukherjee ji came,who is the senior-most minister in the UPA coalition in the Lok Sabha,I worked with him. My area of responsibility has remained unchanged in the MEA. When it comes to Iamp;B what is required is that whether you have that functional autonomy,whether you have been given the freedom to take decisions,whether you have been empowered to function effectively as a minister. My answer is yes. I have not looked at this as a minister of state as I have never been made to feel like one.

amp;149;Seema Chishti: After the Mumbai incident and in our current problems with Pakistan,how constrained are you by the fact that we are heading into a general election? Does that influence the handling of this matter?

As far as we are concerned,India has been attacked,India has been assaulted,it is the dignity of the Indian nation that has been assaulted but India has acted with remarkable restraint and maturity.

At the same time,what has been said by the leadership is that our restraint must not be misconstrued for India8217;s weakness or inability.

What we have done is to inform the entire international community. We have never used a threatening word but what we are saying,don8217;t mistake this as a weakness. Any government has a duty to protect its citizens and to reassure its citizens. So it is a message being given with clarity. India did not walk into the trap when Pakistan wanted to deflect the world8217;s attention when they created a war hype.

amp;149;Seema Chishti: Has the mysterious telephone call to President Zardari been solved?

I think it is absolutely absurd for anybody to suggest that such a call could be made. That too,to the President of a country by the senior-most minister in the Indian government. Even if a call is to be made by me or to me,it is pre-arranged by our mission in that country and the foreign office here. A time is given and the time is tallied.

It is very clear who will be on the line in my office and who will be on the other side. It is unthinkable that you can pick up the phone and dial the President of another country.

So many things were said in Pakistan: that India has moved its forces,etc. This was to create global panic. They shouldn8217;t have done it.

They should have said right in the beginning that we condemn the Mumbai attack 8212; which they said 8212; and that we will take action. Why did they go into a denial mode? This flip-flop is hurting. They already have very poor credibility. Instead of restoring it they are eroding it further.

Transcribed by Sweta Dutta