The world will see a drowned project is functioning, a revival never seen before

I have seen the project from when it started with Narsimha Raoji was prime minister and NKP Salve was power minister. Maharashtra had a Congress government and discussions were about the guarantee, counter-guarantee, with the government of India, government of Maharashtra. Because this was the first project after reforms started in 1991. A foreign company had come to India. Seven such projects were in hand, but only one started and when that started it also stopped within a year.

8226; The remaining six fell by the wayside8230;

The six went out of sight when no one came forward considering the position of this project.

8226; And this one8217;s controversial8230; you8217;ve been on both sides of the controversy.

Yeah, there was controversy right from the time of the Congress government to the Shiv Sena-BJP and then the Congress governments. There was a time when the project was begun by Enron and the Dabhol Power Company. It was to be run on gas and naphtha. At the time, the price was cheaper but subsequently, the price of naphtha increased. So there were controversies, and some people, the opposition people, other than the Congress8212;I can take their name, there8217;s nothing wrong8212;the Shiv Sena-BJP people were publicly saying that we8217;ll drop this Enron project in the Arabian Sea. My view is that if you cannot generate power in the country, your country cannot progress. Power is a major factor across the globe now.

8226; Some people say even many of the Congressmen did not understand this. Your own colleague here, the chief minister, opposed the Narmada project when the state is so short of power.

Laughing I think we are on an electrical point here..this review of the Narmada project, it is different.

8226; But power is power.

But there are different views you see. Rehabilitation was not done properly8230;that8217;s why the whole issue came up there. But this project you have seen here, say if war is fought and after that everything is like8230;death.

8226; Debris8230;

Debris and all. The first time I came, there were so many things under repair. There were only six or seven engineers from General Electric. We sat together, my secretary Shahi, who is very enthusiastic and who got himself involved with the project right from the beginning, even on the managing director8217;s appointment.

8226; But there were many stories that GE was reluctant, that Bechtel was reluctant.

In the beginning, yes, but subsequently, it was sorted out and it was sorted out in such a way that when I talked to their vice-chairman, they were ready to send 13 engineers. Today, how many GE engineers are working here? 25 and they are all foreigners.

8226; Did it require arm-twisting or some tough talking?

No, it was cooperation. I appealed to those people, my department also appealed to those people.

8226; 8230;Such a bad name that I thought the political class did not want to touch it.

It was a challenge to my department. Today, you should be happy that we have done such an excellent job. I congratulate all my working people right from the lowest worker.

8226; If I may say so, 10 days before your deadline.

Ten days. I said publicly that we would start it from the 1st of May or rather before May. Today, we have started one turbine, the second will be started after two days. Synchronising means the power will go to the grid and Maharashtra will have power. This is a test, but actual power will go to whole of Maharashtra after May 28.

8226; This is one of the three. When do the remaining two units begin?

Yes, we have started Unit 2. Units 1 and 3 are not yet fit, so it will take a little time but we are looking to start them by the end of December. Of course, we have to have gas available for this. At the moment, we are running on naphtha which is a bit costly but we can afford it when there is load-shedding, people are suffering in a big way. This will give a 740-MW relief to Maharashtra.

8226; Isn8217;t it a shame that India8217;s commercial capital has to switch off its neon signs? What is a great city without neon signs?

No no, it is a wrong thing. I came to know through my department that the neon signs were likely to be closed. We called a meeting, we called the Bombay Suburban Electrical Co, we called BEST, we called Maharashtra Electrical Co, we called the minister and everybody, including the Tatas, and said Mumbai is the financial capital of India. Mumbai and Delhi proper8212;we cannot afford to have load-shedding there.

8226; Just the symbolic value of Bombay switching off its neon8230;

We acted immediately. They wanted only 150 MW from us. We gave them 200 MW for Mumbai. Now there will not be a power cut as far as Mumbai city is concerned.

8226; I hope nobody from the Left comes out protesting, saying you are giving power for neon signs but not for farmers.

No. At one stage we did it for Mumbai which had no power, but today the entire power will go to rural Maharashtra.

8226; Shinde saab, tell me as a politician8212;you are a consummate politician8212;did you sometimes worry this was too controversial a project to try and revive. The very name of Dabhol means scandal. Why bother with this, don8217;t drown it in the Arabian Sea, just bury it and start something new?

It happened, but today I am proud and the country is proud8230;

8226; Laughing Dabhol ke doobe bahut hain desh meinThere are many in the country that Dabhol has drowned.

But now the country will be happy. The whole world will know that a drowned project, a closed project, is functioning with elan today. No such project in the world has ever been revived, and we are very proud of that.

8226; And what great value! Because this means 2,000 MW within the next six months, seven months. It would take four to five years to build a 2,000 MW plant.

I must tell you it8217;s not 2,100 MW now8230;it will be. But in the expansion programme, it will have the capacity for generating 7,000 MW. Once the three units run properly, we8217;ll go in for expansion to 5,000 MW capacity. Maharashtra will not have any power shortage.

8226; When do you see that expansion happening?

First we8217;ll have to get the experience of running the plant well because I do not want the people to have doubts in their mind. Let there be clarity before the people8212;that here is a project which stagnated, started and stagnated, but these people have started it, and not only started8230;

8226; Given the way the earlier agreement was signed, agar Enron nahin dooba hota toh mushkil ho jati If Enron had not collapsed, there would have been difficulties.

After the agreement was signed, when the naphtha controversy was over, when talk of drowning it in the sea ended, the Shiv Sena-BJP government appointed a commitee to see what was left.. the Kirit Committee.

8226; 8230;Kirit Parikh8230;

The Kirit Parikh Committee has not only given permission to go ahead, but also recommended we go from 740 MW to 2,100 MW.

8226; But the fact is in the earlier agreement, the costs were to be borne by Enron.

See, I do not want to blame anybody but the naphtha cost had increased. Naturally, no one had thought of that. There is no point in dwelling on the past.

8226; Right now you see this as an asset for8230;

8230;For the country. It is the country8217;s property. NTPC has a share, GAIL, the Maharashtra Electricity Board8230;

8226; You don8217;t see this becoming one another white elephant round their necks?

I don8217;t think so, because much investment has gone in. We have spent about Rs 10,000 crore. Otherwise, there were lots of loans from institutions, foreign institutions8230;Bechtel8217;s loan was there, Enron8217;s loan was there8230;subsequently one company purchased another, another company purchased a third company, and finally we purchased those companies8212;Indian corporations and financial organisations. And now it is the property of the Ratnagiri Power and Gas Company. That is national property.

8226; Now, having such wide experience, as sub-inspector in Bombay Police Special Branch to chief minister, to positions at the Centre earlier, and now power minister. What was your toughest job?

I don8217;t feel that there is any 8220;toughest8221; job. Whatever8230;

8226; This is the most thankless8230;power minister. Kyonki saare desh mein bijli ki kami hai because there is power shortage across the country.

I8217;m proud of this. I8217;m proud of this department. Because the prime minister and Sonia Gandhiji thought of me, to take me from governorship and give me this challenging portfolio.

8226; Laughing Anybody would be happy to take something less challenging than a governorship, wouldn8217;t they?

I8217;m personally very happy because challenges, every challenge in my life8230;

8226; Weren8217;t you a bit young for a governorship?

No, I don8217;t think so. I had completed 60 years.

8226; At 60, people barely get cabinet rank in Delhi8230;Madhav Rao Scindia once told me, 8216;Anytime I asked for a higher responsibility they said, Aapko abhi aur experience chahiye you need more experience but I said I8217;m a grandfather!8217;

Politicians should also know when you should start and when you should stop. I8217;m a person who introspects much. My party has given me so much, and particularly, the Nehru-Gandhi family has given me so much. I8217;m fully satisfied. I have no desire.

8226; But still, governorship in your 60s is not what a politician does.

That was also an experience. I am grateful to my party for the experience I got. I have done up the Raj Bhavan8230;you must go there.

8226; Short experience mercifully laughter8230;Politicians are put to pasture in Raj Bhavans. It8217;s like Salman Khan saying that I am improving the toilets in Jodhpur jail because I might have to use them. I think politicians work on these Raj Bhavans because they might have to use them in their 70s and 80s, not in their 60s.

Raj Bhavans are prestigious houses of the state, they should not look shabby. The present governor, Mr Thakur, was telling me that Mr Hamid Karzai, the president of Afghanistan, had come and he said, 8216;What beautiful furniture, What a beautiful garden8217;. So that credit goes to whom?

8226; There8217;s such a big challenge in front of the nation, there8217;s so much power shortage. Electricity boards are in bad shape, so many states have not unbundled their boards, the Electricity Act has not been fully implemented. Power is such a political issue.

That is true. I would like to tell you when we achieved Independence, we had only 1,363 MW of power. Today, we have 1,25,000 MW. And we have decided that by 2012, we will generate another 1,00,000 MW. And we are not just talking. We have an ultra megawatt project8230;we are doing its roadshows abroad as well as here.

8226; Will they succeed? Because people say unless distribution improves, unless commercial reform happens8230;

It will happen, commercial reform will happen, reforms are happening everywhere. We had a meeting yesterday with the regulators, both state and Central regulators. Reforms are taking place there also. What we need to know is that this power that we are producing is not just a hollow claim. In the ultra megawatt project, each projects is of 4,000 MW, being built with a sum of upward of Rs 1,500 crore. We have decided we8217;ll give cheap power, clean power, and the distribution will be such8230;

8226; But when will you start this? Because it is a concurrent subject and states have a very major role8230;the larger power reforms8230;

The states have agreed to the ultra mega power, they have also agreed to purchase the power.

8226; So the ultra mega power plants8217; location will be linked to the states adhering to certain power reforms?

Not linked to power reforms, because if we sit on it then it will not be possible to do what we have to do. Now the question before us is how to generate more and more power. And what you are thinking about are these theft and distribution problems8230;

8226; 8230;T038;D losses. They are called 8216;theft and dacoity8217; losses sometimes, but it8217;s 8216;transmission and distribution8217; losses.

That will be remedied. I don8217;t see much of a problem there. We didn8217;t have infrastructure earlier. Rural electrification meant that an electricity pole was dug in a village. Today, we have changed its meaning. We have instituted a new programme of rural electrification for which the prime minister had given us Rs 5,000 crore. That has already been exhausted and we are asking for another Rs 5,000 crore. The Rajiv Gandhi Grameen Vidyutikaran Yojana envisions that by 2012, every village8230;

8226; But in Bihar and UP there is no power anywhere.

Ab Bihar aur UP mein infrastructure hi nahin hai But they don8217;t have the infrastructure in the first place8230;

8226; wahi to main keh raha hoon8230;exactly what I am saying8230;

Infrastructure to ho jaye pehle fir hum generate zaroor karenge Let the infrastructure be there first, then we8217;ll generate power.

8226; You8217;ll produce this 4,000 MW of energy but it won8217;t reach anywhere. Unless you work on that, and for that you need8230;

We will produce this power in the next 3-4 years and we need infrastructure to transmit it. That is why we are spending Rs 75,000 crore on constructing a grid. Now our five despatch centres are ready. Now if the south wants power it can take it from the north.

8226; Shinde saab, tell me when you speak to these chief ministers, are they open to the idea that they have to carry out power reforms, otherwise they will be in trouble? You can8217;t get reelected these days if your power situation is bad.

That also has come to their mind. I have been talking to chief ministers, they are doing well. Andhra is one of the states to have reformed power very well.

8226; Remarkably even in West Bengal, though they have not unbundled their electricity board or implemented the Electricity Act8230;

As far as they are concerned they have done a very nice job and publicly I8230;

8226; 8230;They have special police stations for power theft.

And publicly I complimented them. You see what they are doing is a part of our reforms.

8226; So when are you getting these chief ministers together? The prime minister has talked about it. Unless you move power8230;

I think immediately after the five states8217; elections.

8226; But you haven8217;t fixed a date yet?

No we haven8217;t.

8226; Do you find that the state-level politicians have bought the mantra of power reforms?

Yes, they have come to know that unless they have power reforms the position is not going to improve. That also means we have put in checks as far as distribution , generation, power theft and T038;D losses are concerned. We are also raising the height of grid wires so they cannot be easily reached.

8226; Well, if you can8217;t stop theft just put the stuff out of reach. So you don8217;t share the pessimism of many experts that the government is rushing to set up power plants without getting the basics in place?

No, whatever experiences my department has had will be passed along, they will be taken into account. Whatever reforms we have done and whatever difficulties that have came to our notice that also we have taken into account.

8226; This will not happen until the political class holds this close to its heart.

It will happen. Our prime minister is saying forcefully that unless our infrastructure is in shape the country will not progress. Until our growth rate is 8-10 per cent8230;what does this mean? And he8217;s depending more on electricity. And I think the voice of the prime minister means the voice of the country.

8226; You know I spoke to one of the electricity board heads and I said my usual line: you are heading the electricity board, this is a hot seat. And he said no, this is the electric chair. Because things can go wrong. But really, we all know how big the challenge of power is and the prime minister has chosen his man well. So maybe we can meet again another time and review the progress.

I am very happy that you have come today and the entire country will see that the project that was blamed8230;

8226; 8230;and which was lying completely dead and thought of as completely junk.

As junk. But now8230;aaj dopahar me jab synchronise ho jayega8230; tab main inke chehre dekh raha tha, sabhi logon ke. Kya khushi thi. Aapne bhi dekha hai. This afternoon when it will be synchronised, 8230;I was watching their faces, of everyone. What joy there was! You have seen it too.

8226; Shinde saab, when you see something good happening in the country you really cherish it, you want to be a part of it. Congratulations to you. It is a remarkable achievement. Here8217;s wishing you many more hundreds and thousands of megawatts8212;in your hot seat, not the electric chair. Thank you.