The Believer The Sceptic

shy;But even as it is Mehra8217;s Rang De Basanti that beats Hirani8217;s Lage Raho Munnabhai as the official entry to the Oscars, the makers agree8212;on the eve of Gandhi Jayanti8212;to a debate on Gandhi and his relevance today.

Even though Hirani has a doctor8217;s appointment for his sore throat, he promises to make it for our date. Mehra takes a break from scripting his next movie and arrives on dot. Hirani is running a bit late courtesy the Mumbai traffic. He messages an apology to Mehra who tells him to take his time. When Hirani makes an appearance, both greet each other like long-lost buddies. And despite their differences, the makers exude only camaraderie and mutual respect.

How many times have you seen each other8217;s latest films? We8217;re curious.

Mehra: I8217;ve seen Lage Raho Munnabhai once.

Hirani: I8217;ve seen Rang De Basanti two times.

Clearly then, Raju has an edge.

Mehra: Not at all. Lage Raho Munnabhai is the first film I saw in two years.

Hirani: Laughing: It8217;s ok, Rakeysh, you can go and see it again tonight.

Assume you hadn8217;t written your respective films. Supposing the scripts of both were in circulation and you were given a choice, which one would you pick?

Mehra Poker faced: If I had known the script of Lage Raho Munnabhai existed, I would8217;ve stolen it. And if I knew that Raju was making this particular film, then I would8217;ve murdered him. Jokes apart, I would8217;ve gone for either/or. Both are great screenplays screaming to be made into movies.

Hirani: After Munnabhai MBBS, I was desperately looking for a script to direct. Since I didn8217;t get anything good, I decided to write the script of Lage Raho Munnabhai. So I would have definitely gone for Rang De Basanti if it were offered to me. And since there is such a dearth of good scripts, I would have picked both of them.

If you had swapped the scripts, how would you have directed the films?

Mehra: Lage Raho8230; has an exceptionally great screenplay. It8217;s one of those rare films in which once the plot is revealed, every moment becomes a moment of conflict. When you come across something so nice and beautiful, you just want to let it be. It8217;s theoretical how I would have made it. The fact is that I haven8217;t and I want to sincerely accept Raju8217;s film with open arms.

Hirani: Exactly. If I got the script of Rang De Basanti, I would8217;ve been definitely inspired by its superb idea. But it would not be the same film. I would8217;ve shot it differently according to my sensibility. But I love how Rakeysh has shot it. I love the way he has used sound and the locations. When I compare Lage Raho Munnabhai with Rang De Basanti, I feel I8217;ve shot my film very simplistically.

Let8217;s shift gear and focus on the real reason we are here today. Today being the eve of Gandhi Jayanti, how relevant is the Mahatma in today8217;s world?

Mehra: I8217;d like to confess that for a long time, Gandhi was more of an idea than a person to me. In fact, sometimes he even ceased to be an idea. Sirf naam ke vaaste hi reh gaye the. I had even forgotten that his picture is printed on the currency notes. But Raju8217;s film has brought Gandhi back in my consciousness. He has made the idea of Mahatma Gandhi relevant for me again.

Hirani: I didn8217;t study Gandhi in school. Richard Attenborough8217;s Gandhi was the only influence. I also grew up hearing 8216;ki aaj ke zamane mein Gandhi nahin chalta8217;. But I always felt that there were two sides to him; one the person who fought for freedom and the other that was the Gandhi way of life, which spoke about simplistic goodness. People say his methods won8217;t work in today8217;s world but those times were more turbulent, so if Gandhi could work then, he can surely work now also. Of course, he wouldn8217;t use the tools of fasting or hadtal, he would have thought of something unique. Like in Lage Raho8230;, when Sanju gives flowers to Lucky Singh, he is protesting but in a non-violent way. Maybe Gandhiji would8217;ve done something like this.

But is that a practical solution?

Hirani: It8217;s practical in lots of situations. I8217;m talking of Gandhi8217;s way of life here. We can solve a lot of problems without aggression. That said, I8217;m a filmmaker and not a crusader. I don8217;t think any film can change the world. It can maybe effect .001 percent of the population and that is quite a sizeable number in a country like ours. And from the reactions we8217;ve been getting from people, I think that8217;s happening.

Mehra: More than the film, Raju is talking about the idea of Gandhi. Let8217;s be real. Gandhi is far above what we8217;ve done. He came down from South Africa to India because he couldn8217;t tolerate exploitation of men by men. He did some mind-blowing stuff that helped us gain independence. He employed ways and means to remain within the law. He felt that way he8217;d best be able to change the system.

If you feel that way, why wasn8217;t Gandhi included in the storyline of RDB? nbsp;

Mehra: The only time Gandhi8217;s mention came in the film was when Bhagat Singh8217;s character writes a letter to him. In real life too, they never came face to face. Bhagat Singh was a Gandhian till the age of 21 but then became disillusioned and set out on his own path. Gandhi wasn8217;t required in my story, so he wasn8217;t there.

Let8217;s go back to the relevance of Gandhi in today8217;s world. One feels that RDB has been more successful in starting a movement of sorts, like support rallies for Jessica Lall and anti-reservation protests. On the other hand, LRM affected people on a more personal level. Does that reflect on the different approaches of Gandhi and Bhagat Singh?

Hirani: Films can8217;t change the world. As a filmmaker, I just want to make a film that touches people, on whatever level. After Munnabhai MBBS, a lady told me her story. Her husband was in coma for five years but after watching the film, her kids started taking their dad to the building compound and would play in front of him. She said the family could sense that he was happy. This reaction moves me more than just figures. After Lage Raho8230;, a man called me from Ahmedabad. He had got a new flat and was going crazy consulting vaastu experts. But after watching the film, he sacked the experts. I8217;m not saying that the Gandhian way is easy. If someone spits on your front door, you can either yell or smile and wipe it. It8217;s about overcoming the ego. I8217;m not saying that there is a solution for everything. But non-violence is a far better approach than violence. nbsp;

Rakeysh, nine months after its release, everybody still comments on the violent ending of RDB. Could you comment on this?

Mehra: It8217;s not so simplistic for me. Non-violence is a no-brainer for me. Even a child will tell you that. I agree with Raju when he says that and given a choice, maybe I8217;ll also go the non-violent way. But at the same time, if a solider is attacked at the Siachen glacier or LoC, he won8217;t be thinking about violence or non-violence. He is defending his motherland and will do whatever to protect her. nbsp;

Hirani: Even Gandhiji got troops together for the World War. He also said that you could use the lathi and fight back if confronted. nbsp;

Mehra: Exactly. We should applaud the idea. It8217;s not one vs the other. There is no debate on which is a better philosophy. Films aren8217;t meant to preach violence or non-violence. I don8217;t think there has been an increase in gun licenses after RDB. People who came on the streets to make their point in the Jessica Lall case or the reservation issue made peaceful demonstrations. Integrity and self-reliance are the common thoughts in both the films. In the end of RDB, it8217;s said that if you want things to change, change yourself first. Join the police, army or air force rather than just point fingers.

Hirani: That8217;s what Gandhiji meant when he said, 8220;Be the change you want to see in others.8221;

Mehra: I agree with that totally. But then again, that doesn8217;t make me a Gandhian. I8217;m a part of this country. I8217;ve also sung Saare Jahan Se Achcha, watched India win one war and lose another, I8217;ve experienced Mandal Commission. But there is a contemporary slant to all of this too. You borrow from wisdom and move on. I interpreted my reality, as I see it, in RDB.

Hirani: And I8217;ve interpreted my reality my way. There are no simplistic solutions for long-term problems. But when you see tears rolling down the faces of some of the most corrupt-looking men, you feel some goodness still exists. I don8217;t know how much we can implement this goodness. As a filmmaker, I can just offer an idea and hope that people pick it up.

Both films talk about nationalism yet they adopt pretty diverse approaches to it. But the audience lapped up both these approaches. How do you explain this dichotomy?

Mehra: A film of a particular era reflects the time it8217;s born in. These two films are born in 2006 and reflect today8217;s time to the best of our knowledge and sincerity. If both are embraced with the same warmth, it is a reflection on today8217;s time. We just tell a story. But maybe people can sense the belief behind both films and that8217;s why are receptive. nbsp;

Hirani: It8217;s all about the belief. The common reaction to RDB and LRM is that both are heartfelt films. Somewhere, they have touched people and that8217;s wonderful. Another reason can be that they are not conventional films. nbsp;

Audiences may now expect more socially responsible cinema from the two of you.

Mehra: Filmmaking is a journey. If we say that we are socially responsible filmmakers, then we won8217;t be honest. Tomorrow if I make a love story, I don8217;t want to take responsibility for all the broken hearts in the country. nbsp;

Hirani: You don8217;t have to take success so seriously. Rakeysh and I can8217;t be thinking now that we8217;ve made films on Bhagat Singh and Gandhi, we are more responsible than others. That8217;s a trap and the beginning of a filmmaker8217;s doom. I plan to do a sex-comedy next.