‘One difficulty the Congress has is that we cannot compete in regional politics’

This has been a new experience for us — never before have we been in a coalition. In the past, coalitions have been used to defeat the Congress. Now, we have to work with political parties that have anti-Congress roots. When we started out, I had many doubts if this would work, but somehow we have managed to carry our partners. One lesson we have learnt is that you have to adhere to the Common Minimum Programme, you cannot follow your own policies.

• SHEKHAR GUPTA: How do you perceive the role of the media in this political scenario?

Earlier, there were news reports. Now it is called a ‘story’. There seems to be an element of imagination involved here!

• SHISHIR GUPTA: Last week, the media carried a number of defining images — a regional party leader, Mayawati, was given sweets by an officer on her birthday; Sonia Gandhi and L.K. Advani smiled at each other; and then there was Nano. How do these reflect the future of India?

The images reflect a mature democracy in which two opposing leaders smile at each other. The Nano is the reflection of a progressive India.

• RAVISH TIWARI: Was the outcome of the Gujarat election a blow to the Congress’s resolve on the nuclear deal?

No one expected the Congress to win in Gujarat. We expected (Narendra) Modi to come back with reduced numbers and the Congress to increase its numbers. So the question of our resolve on the nuclear deal being affected after the setback in the Gujarat elections doesn’t arise.

We always knew there would be strong resistance to the deal. Then, in the Rajya Sabha in September 2006, the prime minister detailed nine specific points that India wanted recognised in any deal and CPM leader Sitaram Yechury said he was satisfied with those. The 123 Agreement takes those nine points into account, so we were optimistic.

However, there have been disagreements over the Hyde Act. I think there has been an over-reaction — it is a case of reading too much between the lines. The Act is mandatory on the U.S. administration, not us. But for the IAEA or U.S., it would be difficult to have such an agreement with a government that has lost majority. So we have to try to carry our partners along. Our resolve remains, but let’s see how far we can progress.

• SHEKHAR GUPTA: When Sitaram Yechury was here, some time ago, he said that there were three options regarding the deal: no deal and the government stays, no deal and no government, and lastly, a deal but no government. Did the latter possibility ever cross your mind?

No. We would not like to be blamed for being unable to run a coalition government for even one full term. But it is important to realise that we have a much more difficult task in leading a coalition than the BJP had with the NDA, because their allies had fewer seats. The Left parties and the Samajwadi Party have a combined strength of 100 seats. That makes them more powerful than the Shiv Sena, which was part of the NDA.

• VARGHESE GEORGE: Do you think the Congress can return as the lead party? Do you see the Left as an ally in the future?

That would depend on the parties’ strength at the time and the mind of the electorate at the time of polls. In the 1977 elections, Congress lost badly in states like Bihar, Delhi. MP, Bengal and Orissa. But the southern states supported us. We swept through the country after Mrs Gandhi’s death in 1984 but we got only a few seats in Andhra Pradesh. What matters is the dominant consideration for the electorate at the time of the elections. If it does not want fragmentation, it will go for a strong mandate. I hope there will be a dominant majority after the next elections.

• SHEKHAR GUPTA: Has this coalition experience been tougher than what you had anticipated?

I never thought a coalition could work. However, it has, and much of the credit must go to Mrs Sonia Gandhi. She went the extra mile to cover all possibilities. Whenever there has been tension, her mediating role and influence have had considerable impact on all parties.

• RITU SARIN: Can you throw some light on the functioning of the coalition?

The UPA Coordination Committee meets every week or once a fortnight under Mrs Sonia Gandhi. One meeting is held every week with members of the constituent parties of the coalition. I meet the UPA partners every alternate day and the Left once a week.

• D.K. SINGH: You are perhaps the only person who has worked with Indira Gandhi and Sonia Gandhi so closely. How different are the two in their working style?

One striking feature of Mrs Sonia Gandhi is that unlike most Indian politicians, she speaks little and does not give false hopes. She is precise, she does not comment until it is necessary.

• SUBHOMOY BHATTACHARYA: Are you comfortable with the experiment of the Prime Minister not being the leader of the party?

The prime minister is supposed to lead the cabinet and the government. The Congress president gets to look after other political issues. It is a good arrangement. If you consider the history of the Congress, you will note that often the Congress president was not the prime minister.

• D.K. SINGH: You have worked so closely with Dr Manmohan Singh. How has your relationship been with him and how has he grown from working under you to now?

He was never working under me. Even when I was finance minsiter, he was the RBI governor. He has also been the chief economic adviser. I must say I have a great personal equation with him. Whenever he was not sure of parliamentary tactics, as he would call it, as Leader of the Opposition, he would always turn to me. He was extremely courteous and has matured as a political leader. When the finance bill was not being discussed on the floor and the NDA brought their observations to the prime minister’s chamber, he was extremely upset but still courteous. They went and made a hue and cry about it, saying the PM was rude. Ghulam Nabi Azad made a joke then. He said that if they had said Pranab Mukherjee was rude to them, people would more than willingly believed them,. But not about Dr Manmohan Singh.

• SHEKHAR GUPTA: But you do have a temper?

Yes, I must admit. I do sometimes, and it is the young people in the media who have to bear the brunt of it.

• VIKAS PATHAK: The Congress projects 10 Janpath as its power centre. But with the increasing importance of regional politics, is it feasible to project Rahul Gandhi as a leader in state elections?

One difficulty the Congress has is that we cannot compete in regional politics. We have strong competition from regional parties in Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Jharkhand, and Tamil Nadu and we face challenges from the Left in states like West Bengal, Kerala and Tripura. We have recognised the urgent need for organised social engineering and mobility at the grassroots level.

• SUBHOMOY BHATTACHARYA: The Congress came to power after declaring that the NDA’s policies were not pro aam aadmi. Which UPA economic policy would you highlight as pro aam aadmi?

Despite a few lacunae in the NRGES, it is a major institutional arrangement. The Right to Information Act is a major step for the common man, as it brings in transparency and accountability. There has been a major boost in exports. This has generated more employment. We have taken forward the national highways projects and then there’s the JNNURM scheme.

• SHEKHAR GUPTA: JNNURM is one of the smartest and most creative schemes launched by a government as it has initiated a spate of reforms which, had they been recommended by the IMF, wouldn’t have taken place. It is a reform pushed at the intellectual level. Do you agree?

Yes, and all the credit goes to the prime minister. It was his idea.

• COOMI KAPOOR: Of all the portfolios you have held so far, which has been the most challenging?

Every portfolio has been challenging. When I took over as finance minister in 1982, Mr Venkatraman (the FM before me) had just entered into the Extended Funding Facilities with the IMF borrowing nearly $51.1 billion and there were concerns regarding IMF interference in our decision-making powers. Inflation was high and the Eighth Plan was practically a non-starter. People thought I would come out of IMF building on a stretcher, but I came out with my head held high .

Being the defence minister in this government was a completely new experience. A senior defence ministry official, during an early meeting, jokingly said he hoped I wasn’t carrying my “baggage from the other street” because during my tenure as finance minister, I always called the defence ministry the ‘spending ministry’!

When I was defence minister, we needed funds for modernisation. Mr P. Chidambram, the finance minister, had allotted us a budget of Rs 61,000 crore. I managed to get Rs 77,000 crore after the intervention of the prime minister.

Now, as external affairs minister, I find the work has expanded over the last ten years. India is looked at as an important player on the international stage and our international commitments have increased. So have the challenges.

• ZEENAT NAZIR: You have said that you have faith in the resilience of Pakistan’s people and the system. What is this based upon?

There is an urge for restoring democracy among the people of Pakistan. There is a vibrant judiciary, a growing middle class and an awareness among political parties that they have to play by the rules of the games or else other forces will take advantage of the situation. We cannot change our neighbours but we desire peace and stability in Pakistan. Most countries including Russia, China, and U.S. want peace in Pakistan. It is possible.

• SHEKHAR GUPTA: In the last four years, support for the Left has been shrinking. Be it in Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Punjab, or Gujarat, where they lost the one seat you gave them by 27,000 votes. But they hold firm in Kerala and West Bengal. How do you explain this?

It is not that the people in Bengal are enamoured of the Left but the Congress is in a very peculiar situation in Bengal. Till 1998, we have always had 40 per cent of the vote but not the seats. After Mamata (Banerjee) left the Congress, the vote got divided which has helped the CPM. If she had not left we would have swept the polls.

One reason the CPM keeps on winning is that they are superior in their organisational abilities. In Bengal, there are about 270,000 polling booths that need to be manned by about 17 lakh people. No political party other than the CPM can command those numbers.

• RAVISH TIWARI: After the turmoil in Nandigram, is the Congress trying to woo Mamata Banerjee back into its fold?

We would like to work with her, but would she like it? She has influence in south Bengal and can win there with our support, but an alliance does not seem to be on the cards right now. She has categorically said that she would not give up her alliance with the NDA. In the next general elections, the UPA is pitted against NDA. There the Congress cannot support her.

• SHEKHAR GUPTA: Next month in Tripura, the Congress and the CPM face each other in the Assembly elections. Is this going to be friendly fight or a real one?

It is going to be a real fight.

• RAVISH TIWARI: Are you planning to write your memoirs?

I have the desire to write them. But whatever I write has to be a truthful account and a lot of the people who I would write about are alive and in active politics. Maybe I will hand it over to my daughter, who is quite interested in writing my biography.

• RAVISH TIWARI: What will the protocol for Carla Bruni be, when she accompanies French President Sarkozy to India from Thursday?

Even I am waiting for Thursday!

(The transcript was prepared by Aanchal Bansal)