India-US 2+2 meet, eggs in midday meals, and lemon prices soar

Next, Indian Express’ Sourav Roy Burman talks about the Karnataka government planning to introduce eggs in midday meals (12:00).

And in the end, Indian Express’ Parthasarthi Biswas explains why lemons have become more expensive right now (18:52).

TRANSCRIPT

Shashank Bhargava: Hi, I’m Shashank Bhargava, and you’re listening to three things The Indian Express news show. In this episode, we talked about the karnataka state government planning to introduce eggs in midday meals. We also talk about why lemons have become a lot more expensive right now. But first we talk about the Two Plus Two meeting that took place between India and the US. Earlier this week, the foreign and defence ministers of both the countries met in the US Capitol Washington DC. After the meeting, all four ministers also gave a joint press conference. And during it the differences that the two countries have came forward, particularly those about Russia. In this segment, Indian Express’s Associate Editor Shubhajit Roy joins us to talk about this meeting. Shubhajit, earlier this week, the foreign and the Defence Ministers of the US and India met. And the meeting obviously took place in the backdrop of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. And when both India and the US have a different relationship with Russia, and perhaps different views on Russia as well. How did we see this being reflected in the meeting?

Shubhajit Roy: So we clearly saw divergences in India’s and US’s views on the issue while the overall goal that there should be faction of hostilities and violence, that is the war should stop. And diplomacy should prevail. That was the common thread, but there were clear divergences on this issue. But broadly, both sides tried to sort of signal that there are far more convergences than there were divergence. So they talked about their shared values of a willingness to understand each other’s position and a partnership, which is deepening when there’s so much more going on in the world today. So after the what is the foot two plus two meeting and this is the first under the Biden administration of the foreign and defence ministers of India and the US. That was the key takeaway, that while there are divergences, the convergence is far outweigh those divergences.

Shashank Bhargava: Right. And one thing we saw was that the US was openly condemning Russia’s actions. But did India say anything specific about Russia?

Shubhajit Roy: So that is where the divergence takes place where the US side especially Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, was very clear in his condemnation of Moscow was what he called Moscow’s increasingly brutal actions in Ukraine. And it also urged all partners, and India is a strategic partner, as you know, of the US, and that he urged all partners not to increase their purchases of Russian energy.

Antony Blinken: Of course we are encouraging countries not to purchase additional energy supplies from from Russia, every country is differently situated, has different needs, requirements, but we’re looking to allies and partners not to increase their, their purchases of Russian energy.

Shubhajit Roy: Now, the Indian side obviously did not condemn Russia, in as many words and aware of the oblique reference to India, and its purchase of discounted Russian oil, which is actually very small in number. And that was highlighted by External Affairs Minister S. Jaishankar.

S. Jaishankar: I noticed you refer to oil purchases. If you’re looking at energy purchases from Russia, I would suggest that your attention should be focused on Europe, which probably we do buy some energy, which is necessary for our energy security. But I suspect looking at the figures, probably our total purchases for the month would be less than what Europe does in an afternoon. So you might want to think about it

Shubhajit Roy: Essentially showing the world and telling the US that India’s consumption or purchase of Russian oil is really a miniscule amount, which as compared to what the rest of the world, especially Europe has been buying.

Shashank Bhargava: So in this case, when you have a foreign minister saying in front of India, that countries should not use Russian oil. He’s obviously saying knowing that India uses Russian oil, which is what prompts this exchange.

Shubhajit Roy: Yeah, correct. Correct. Sobecause Jaishankar didn’t really target the US when he made his point by citing the example of Europe. And this is the first time though this is the second time that Jaishankar has underlined that India’s Russian energy consumption is much less than that of Europe, there has been pressure from the west to stop buying Russian oil. But he had last spoken on this issue. If I remember correctly, it was in the presence of the British Foreign Secretary Liz Truss in Delhi last month.

Shashank Bhargava: Okay, and the other thing that has made news is that during this meet and press conference, Antony Blinken said that Washington was monitoring some recent concerning developments in India,

Antony Blinken: We regularly engage with our Indian partners on the shared values. And to that end, we’re monitoring some recent concerning developments in India, including a rise in human rights abuses by some government, police and prison officials.

Shashank Bhargava: So should you how unusual is it for someone in Blinken’s position to openly make such remarks? Well,

Shubhajit Roy: You know, Democratic administrations in the US have had human rights as a major priority in their agenda. And that has really always dominated the discourse. If you remember when US President Barack Obama had come to India a few years ago, after the bilateral meetings in his last speech at Siri fort auditorium, I still remember he had raised the issue of human rights in India, the issues that are the concern. So right now under Biden Administration, also that has been focused, and Secretary Blinken also raised this issue in a paragraph while he was making his opening remarks, which is obviously part of his prepared text and was not in response to a question. So that is something that is important that he said it on his own initiative. What is unusual is usually such statements are made, I mean, independently, and the Congress or in some speaking engagement, or in a speech, but this time, it was in the presence of the Indian Foreign Minister and the Indian defence minister. So which is unusual, especially in recent years, that usually doesn’t happen.

Shashank Bhargava: And saying this in front of India essentially means that the US wants India to do something about this.

Shubhajit Roy: Yeah, of course, that is the underlying meaning, although in diplomacy, I mean, it’s usually countries avoid prescriptive statements in public, and especially in the presence of foreign ministers. But the fact that the US raise the issue shows that there is a concern, but if you remember the next day Jaishankar in press conference in Washington, DC, when asked about this issue, said that India also has certain issues about human rights when it comes to the US, and it raises them from time to time.

S. Jaishankar: People are entitled to have views about us. But we are also equally entitled to have us about I will also just so that I round off that part. We also take her views on other people’s human rights situation, including the United States.

Shubhajit Roy: So obviously, he possibly didn’t want to contradict or counter in the press conference, which has now come under criticism by political parties in India, I saw NCP leader NCP chief Sharad Pawar, making a statement that the foreign minister and defence minister did not respond to that particular statement by Secretary of State Blinken. So it obviously has political significance and repercussions in India. So that’s how Jaishankar responded the day after.

Shashank Bhargava: And Shubhajit, you mentioned, of course, that in this meeting, US and India were more aligned and had shared views compared to the differences that they had. But with these differing views on Russia, and then comments on each other’s human rights abuses, is that a bad sign for India’s relationship with the US?

Shubhajit Roy: I think for as foreign minister has said this often that when you have strategic partnerships and friendships, close consultations with countries, you also will have differences. So the issue is how does one build on the convergences for example, there is a major convergence on when it comes to threat from China. So for example, US secretary of defence Lloyd Austin, he clearly said that China is attempting to challenge and undermine the sovereignty of its neighbours, and that Beijing is eroding the security of the Indo Pacific region with the construction of dual use infrastructure along India’s border, and that the US will continue to stand alongside India and its defence of sovereign interests. So these are very strong words of solidarity with India, keeping in mind China’s aggressive behaviour in the Indo Pacific and especially along the line of actual control. So that was a major point of convergence were talked about defence and technology and the signed an agreement on space awareness agreement. They said that they would cooperate on cyber. So I’m in fact secretary of defence from the US side is very categorical, saying that there should be cooperation and information sharing in other war time domains, like cyber, pace, and other areas and also in terms of technology.

Lloyd Austin: Today’s meeting shows that we’re working together to build one of the most consequential partnerships of our time. We’ve made important commitments today that will drive technological innovation and cooperation in emerging defence domains, including space and cyberspace.

Shubhajit Roy: And similarly, the Defence Minister Rajnath Singh also said that India would want us companies to come and make in India where develop weapons systems and that can use for India’s national security. So I think these were important convergences while the divergences over Russia and the issue of human rights that was raised do give an impression of perception that these are very big differences. But on the ground, India and the US have really deep partnership and especially because of the people to people connectivity, you know, that there are about 200,000 Almost two lakh Indian students studying in the US there are about a 4 million people who are of Indian origin in the United States, there are deep economic trade linkages with the US. So all these actually hold an act as a glue to the relationship. So the convergences are enormous. And that’s why they far outweigh these differences over say Russia or common rights, although they pose a very important challenge for India and the US as well.

Shashank Bhargava: And next we’ll talk about the midday meal scheme, under which every child enrolled in a government or a government aided school gets a cooked meal. The BJP led Karnataka government is soon planning to include eggs in midday meals in the state. If it is cleared by the cabinet, then it will become the first major BJP ruled state to introduce eggs to the menu of the school lunch programme. This is noteworthy because introducing eggs and meals has led certain groups to create controversies around it. In fact, in the past, the BJP itself has been against the introduction of eggs in midday meals. But despite this, they are planning to take this decision now. In the segment Indian expresses Sourav Roy Barman:tells us what has led them to do so. Sourav, could you begin by just talking about the significance midday meals have for children in India.

Sourav Roy Barman: The scheme is hugely significant because over the years, it has played a stellar role in improving nutrition levels and also in reducing dropouts, increasing enrollment in schools. And we have recognised the fact that for lack of schoolchildren midday meal is the only proper meal they get to eat on any given day. And this is the reality even today. I mean, look at the scale of the scheme. It has over 11 Crore beneficiaries in classes one to eight across the country. So it is very important.

Shashank Bhargava: And I think it’s because of midday meals that a lot of parents end up sending their kids to school right the fact that it will provide the kids at least one good meal.

Sourav Roy Barman: Yeah, that is correct. Many studies have actually shown that and endorse that even government studies commissioned by the government, it has found that it has helped in increasing number of children’s schools, especially in lower primary classes in primary classes

Shashank Bhargava: And usually what kind of items are served in the meals.

Sourav Roy Barman: So usually, you know, there has to be rice or roti, there has to be green leafy vegetables, and dal. So all these things have to be there on the menu. And that isn’t often enough in terms of tackling nutrition issues especially in in districts with high prevalence of anaemia and where you have very low immunity levels due to malnutrition. So states are usually encouraged to add more to the menu be it  milk or even eggs, fruits or say idli or jaggery many other things.

Shashank Bhargava: And you mentioned eggs. Now despite them being a very good source of protein and having a lot of important vitamins. They are part of midday meals and only a very few states. And they’ve also been controversial What is the reason behind that?

Sourav Roy Barman: Yeah, so right now there are only 13 states and four union territories where eggs are served and even then the frequency varies. For instance, in only in Tamil Nadu children get eggs on all school working days in Andhra Pradesh, they get five days a week and in most of the places ;ike it’s twice a week or twice a week and there are states like Sikkim where it is once a month. So, it remains controversial. Many states have tried in the past to introduce a Chattisgarh and even multiple states, even Karnataka has tried in the past, but usually they end up facing a lot of opposition from social groups as a result political parties also weighed in. So, it is mainly due to caste hierarchies, and because usually all these caste groups they may not be dominant in terms of numbers, but they are dominant in terms of the influence they have in the society. So they try and dictate food choices. So it is an outcome of that it is an outcome of caste, religion, and in some states Arunachal Pradesh, which is a hilly state with a very treacherous terrain. So they find the whole affair very costly. Apart from costly they also find it hard to source eggs in sufficient numbers. So that is another problem. But that is only in case of few states like I’m Nigel Tripura, smallest states with very limited resources.

Shashank Bhargava: And now you have reported that the Karnataka government, which right now has the BJP in power, is planning to introduce eggs in midday meals. And this is despite some prominent and politically influential communities opposing this decision. So what has led them to take this decision now?

Sourav Roy Barman: See, Karnataka has been planning to add the eggs to the menu for a long time now. So what they did was last year, they started with a pilot in seven very backward districts in the northeastern part of Karnataka. So the government of Karnataka in fact informed this told the centre, they pointed out that in certain districts, they need to make some urgent intervention because children are not getting enough nutrition due to poverty. And it is leading to heavy dropouts, and most of them suffering from malnutrition. So they were in a way compelled to add eggs that they had no choice. And, of course, many groups have resisted the move. But largely, it has also generated a very positive response from students and even parents and other stakeholders. I mean, attendance has gone up dramatically in those parts. So that has, in a way encourage the government to scale it up. Now, despite all this opposition.

Shashank Bhargava: And I’m guessing Karnataka would be a state where people generally eat eggs, right? Like, largely people won’t have any problems with it. In fact, they would prefer it.

Sourav Roy Barman: Yeah, even if you look at national sample survey data. So yeah, in canonical, most communities eat eggs, like in other parts of India.

Shashank Bhargava: Sourav in cases, where children don’t eat eggs, what alternatives are they given.

Sourav Roy Barman: So, you know, even in states where they provide eggs, so they also have alternatives for those who do not actually eat eggs, they have they are given seasonal fruits and bananas and even in states where they do not provide eggs at all. So in some states, they give mill variety of seasonal fruits, even ladoos, soya chunks are given in many states and even chicken is given in luxury for example, but that is mostly due to demographics of the island and kheer given in many places.

Shashank Bhargava: Now if the Karnataka decision gets finalised, the state will become the first major BJP ruled state to introduce eggs to the midday meal programme. And it seems that they are being forced to recognise the problem of malnutrition in the state.

Sourav Roy Barman: Yeah, that is honestly the reality across India. Many are forced to take note of this reality, but the interventions differ. For example, an MP we all know the malnutrition levels are very high. But the MP Chief Minister has openly he’s publicly He has repeated his stance that he’s not going to add eggs in the menu. In fact, in 2018, for a very short period, the Congress had come to power in MP and they had added eggs in the menu of anganwadis. After the BJP returned to power under Shivraj Singh Chauhan eggs were removed from the menu of anganwadis.

Shashank Bhargava: And in the end, we talk about lemons. As you probably already know, especially if you have been doing vegetable shopping yourself. The price of lemons have drastically gone up. In fact, the prices have reached unprecedented heights, which is why we spoke to Indian Express’s Parthasarathi Biswas who reports on agriculture about the exact reason behind this and he began by telling us just how expensive lemons have become right now.

Parthasarathi Biswas: If you’re in Delhi, single lemon would cost you around 10 rupees and if you are in Ahmedabad, it can go as high as 13 rupees some cities like Mumbai, Kolkata and Punjab, it is ranging between 10 to 16 rupees and in Lucknow It is six to eight rupees

Shashank Bhargava: and Parthasarathi how do these prices compare with what people were paying for lemons last year?

Parthasarathi Biswas: A year back on this day lemons were around retailing at around two to three rupees a piece, the maximum price anyone can do remembering the historic past was around five rupees. And it is very rare that a single lemon could cost the five rupee mark and then people would feel that lemon has become costly. In the summertime the prices rise a bit higher, but most of the times you get three or four lemons for around 10 rupees or if you’re in a lemon producing stuff, it would be around two lemons for five rupees.

Shashank Bhargava: Okay, so what is the reason behind lemon prices skyrocketing right now?

Parthasarathi Biswas: to understand that we need to look into 2021 That was a year of very good monsoon. However, September and October were marked with exceptionally heavy rain. Lemons are grouped under these kinds of fruits which we’ll call Citric, the required moist and a bit dry weather and too much moisture can cause problems to them. The genesis of the present problem lies in the heavy rains of 21 as well as the heavy rains early this year because of twister flowering failed, and that’s the reason we didn’t have enough arrival and that’s why prices have shot up.

Shashank Bhargava: Okay, so heavy rains are generally considered good for some crops. But that’s clearly not the case with lemons then.

Parthasarathi Biswas: No it is not because lemons are pretty sensitive to excess moisture in case of lemon are dry but moist climate is necessary in case the moisture level exceeds the above a certain level the roots of the lemon tree starts rotting. And last year if you remember September October exceptionally wet that’s why most of the lemon growing areas farmers had reported loss of flowering that is the loss of the Bahar

Shashank Bhargava: Right you mentioned this Bahar treatment in your piece as well. Could you explain what that is?

Parthasarathi Biswas: So the Bahar treatment is artificial induction or inducing of flowering. So what farmer does is that he cross stops for irrigation for some time, prunes the tree and then starts irrigation and fertilisers, his trees this shock forces the plants to flower and subsequently the farmer gets a harvest after five months of the fruit and you have to wait at least three to four months for the treatment you just cannot take the treatment when you want in case you have lost one Bahar in case you have lost one flower you have to wait at least three to four months before the next treatment.

Shashank Bhargava: Okay, so because farmers have not been able to do that there aren’t enough lemons right now. So what kind of shortage are we seeing in the market.

Parthasarathi Biswas: So in Pune’s market as of now, on an average, Pune’s market receives around 3000 bags of 10 kgs each of lemon and now at this moment, it’s receiving only 1000 or 1500 back. So the arrivals have dipped by 50%. And if you go by the law of supply and demand the prices have shot up and they will continue to be heightened arrivals improve

Shashank Bhargava: You were listening to three things by the Indian Express Today’s show was written and produced by me, Shashank Bhargava, and was edited and mixed by Suresh Pawar. If you liked the show, then do subscribe to us wherever you get your podcasts. You can also recommend the show to someone who you think will like it. Share it with a friend or someone in your family. It’s the best way for people to get to know about us. You can tweet us at @Expresspodcasts and write to us at podcasts@Indianexpress.com