Sharad Pawar: ‘I am very happy at govt’s action in Pakistan, PoK… It was a much-needed lesson’

Among the country’s most experienced politicians, Pawar, a four-time Maharashtra chief minister, was the Union Defence Minister in the early 1990s under the P V Narasimha Rao government. In an interview held over two days, Pawar spoke about the dilemma facing his party, the state of the Opposition INDIA bloc and its future, and Rahul Gandhi’s leadership. Excerpts:

Q. How do you see the strikes by India on nine terror bases in Pakistan and Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (PoK)?

I appreciate the steps taken by the Indian armed forces against the terrorist spots in Pakistan and PoK. It was a much-needed lesson . The Indian Air Force took special precautions… there were no civilian casualties. I am very happy at the steps taken by the Indian government.

Q. You have been Raksha Mantri. What was your first reaction when you heard of the Pahalgam attack?

My first reaction was that such a big incident could not have happened unless something went wrong. But this is not the time to ask questions. This is a time to work together and give full support to the Government of India.

Q. How do you look at the reaction in Kashmir, where people came out in protest against the attacks, arguably for the first time in the Valley’s history of militancy?

The local population took an aggressive anti-terrorism stand. There was a unanimous resolution in the J&K Assembly condemning the attack. The speech made by the Chief Minister (Omar Abdullah) was really good… You may not know this but Omar lived at our house in Mumbai for three years when I was the CM and he and Supriya (Sharad Pawar’s daughter Supriya Sule) used to go to college together. At that time the situation in Kashmir was bad, and Farooq (Abdullah), who is a friend, came to me and said, ‘Sharad, I am sending Omar to you.’

An element in this country likes to blame the (Kashmiri) community as a bloc if anything happens. The mood of the Kashmiri people is something different now.

Q. You have been Defence Minister. If you were one now, what would be your advice to the Prime Minister?

There are sizeable sections in the country who are insisting on action. Whatever action you have to take, do not be in a hurry. What they (the government) have done, like stopping imports, exports, that all is good. I would have taken appropriate action (if I had been in office) … Sabak seekhane ke alag-alag tareeke hote hain (There are different ways to teach a lesson)… for example, in the PoK, the strong bases of extremists….

Q. Do you think India should reach out to politicians in Pakistan, as opposed to their army?

This is not the time (for it).

Q. Shifting to another subject, do you think if Nitish Kumar had not gone back to the NDA last year, you (the INDIA bloc) might have won the 2024 Lok Sabha elections?

If friends like Nitish Kumar and Chandrababu Naidu had been with INDIA, it would have been a very different situation.

Q. Would you have won?

I can’t say that. But if you see the numbers that the BJP got and those that the Opposition won… we would have been close to the magic mark.

Q. Why were you not able to keep Nitish Kumar with you?

The first meeting of the INDIA bloc was held in Patna. Who was the host? Nitish Kumar. The second meeting was held in Bengaluru. Till then he (Nitish) was with us. Suddenly he changed.

Q. It was said that in Bengaluru Nitish’s name was going to be announced as the convenor of the INDIA bloc?

Lalu (Prasad) insisted that his (Nitish’s) name be announced – actually Lalu took the initiative. Some of us, including me, supported it. This was discussed at the Bengaluru meeting. But some people said, ‘Jaldbaazi mat keejiye (Don’t act in haste)’.

Q. Did those people include Trinamool Congress chief Mamata Banerjee and Congress leader Rahul Gandhi?

‘Some people’ said we will talk to the people from the South, take them into confidence and then decide. Kharge (Congress president Mallikarjun Kharge) was there, I don’t remember if Rahul was there.

Q. Do you think that as Leader of the Opposition, Gandhi has frittered away the opportunity that the 2024 Lok Sabha elections presented to Opposition parties?

An opportunity does not get missed. Even today there are opportunities. Galti ho sakti hai, wrong judgment ho sakta hai (there can be mistakes, wrong judgment). Even today, if we work with ‘samajhdaari (sagacity)’, those opportunities can return.

Q. You told me in Satara during the Lok Sabha campaign last year that a situation would develop, within a year or so, when several regional parties would be compelled to associate more closely or merge their identity with the Congress. That was a big statement. Did Gandhi get in touch with you about your offer?

It was Kharge, the Congress president, who was in contact (with us).

Q. Did Kharge broach this with you?

Not in so many words. He said there is a need to work together… Par issi raste se jaana hoga (But we have no option but to go forward on this path). The INDIA group cannot join the BJP.

Q. Has no response come from the Congress side on this?

I have no contact now.

Q. What do you feel about the Congress and Rahul Gandhi’s approach? He has said that there could be 30-40 moles inside the Congress and that to revive the Congress in Gujarat was a 50-year project?

Why should I react?

Q. How do you assess Rahul Gandhi’s overall leadership?

He works hard. When issues arise in the country, he reacts. But today there is no mahaul (atmosphere) for Rahul to do something big. I would only say that there is need for him to work even more aggressively on the ground. Not just Rahul but the entire Opposition.

Q. Though down to 240 seats in the 2024 polls, the BJP behaves as if it is as strong as it was earlier?

That is the BJP.

Q. So you think there is something to learn from the BJP?

(Laughs).

Q. How do you see the INDIA bloc’s future?

Today, the situation is not conducive for INDIA. But the situation can be changed.

Q. What really went wrong in the Maharashtra Assembly polls?

I don’t know. The situation here was in our favour. The Lok Sabha poll result went in our favour. What happened in the Vidhan Sabha (elections) then? Wherever we go, people in every village say we voted in the Vidhan Sabha elections just as we had voted in the Lok Sabha polls, but the result was different. I don’t want to give a strong statement about the Election Commission.

Q. How do you see the future of your own party NCP(SP)?

As far as we are concerned, there are two views inside the party. One is that we reunite (with the NCP led by Ajit Pawar). The second section feels do not go directly or indirectly with the BJP. Let’s join the INDIA group and reorganise the alliance.

Q. But you are already in INDIA?

INDIA is not active today. So we have to reorganise, rebuild our party, induct younger people into it, and work.

Q. But where do you propose to go – with INDIA, or keep your options open?

Our thinking is to work in the Opposition. We should create a credible alternative to the BJP.

Q. You recently met your nephew Ajit Pawar twice in a week?

That was not for rajniti (politics). There are many institutions, including educational ones, where we work with him, with NDA, with the Leftists, and we will continue to do so.

Q. What about your daughter Supriya Sule?

She has to take a stand. She has taken a decision of sitting in the Opposition in Parliament.

Q. What is your view on the caste census the Modi government has announced it will hold?

Theek hai (It’s the right move). For many years there was a demand to hold it. The naksha (social map) will become clear.

Q. Some fear it will lead to social divisions.

It may have some such repercussions.

Q. How do you see the future of India… I mean desh?

I am an optimist. Parliamentary democracy is continuing in this country because of the samajhdaari of the common people, not because of us.