Kashi, Mathura disputes, Sangh chief interview figure in second round of RSS-Muslim community talks

On ghettoisation, the Muslim side pointed out that it was the result of riots or communal tensions, and the need of the community to feel sure.

Both sides affirmed that the talks, held on January 14, were amicable, and ended with a resolve to continue such discussions.

While RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat, who had led the talks in August last year, was not present, this time the discussions saw the participation of Muslim religious leaders as well. Niaz Ahmad Farooqui, the secretary of the Jamiat Ulama-i-Hind, called the meeting an “ice-breaker” and an “initial dialogue to understand each other’s stand”.’

One of the issues on which there was extensive discussion was the recent interview of Bhagwat to RSS-affiliated publications, where he explained the “aggression” in the Hindu community as resulting from “being at war for 1,000 years”.

Apart from Kashi and Mathura – where court hearings on surveys of the disputed sites are on – the RSS raised the use of words such as kafir (non-believer) and jihad by Muslim leaders and organisations, questioned “continuing” cow slaughter in the country and the alleged involvement of the community in it, as well as the “propensity of Muslims to live in ghettos”.

The main concerns raised by the Muslim side dealt with the deployment of bulldozers against minority establishments, mob lynchings, hate speeches, the recent Bhagwat interview and the RSS “silence” on hate speech.

Jung, at whose residence the talks were held, told The Indian Express: “The meeting was held in a very congenial atmosphere. Both parties had their say and this conversation will be carried forward. The attempt is to bring the communities together and make India strong. There are hardly any issues so contentious that they can’t be resolved between the two communities.”

The Sangh side was represented at the January 14 talks by Indresh Kumar, Ram Lal and Krishna Gopal. The Muslim delegation, comprising around 15 representatives, included former Delhi Lieutenant Governor Najeeb Jung, ex-chief election commissioner S Y Quraishi, senior journalist and former Rajya Sabha MP Shahid Siddiqui, and members of Muslim organisations such as the Jamaat-e-Islami Hind.

Jung, Quraishi and Siddiqui were also present at the last meeting – held at Udaseen Ashram at Jhandewala in Delhi – apart from former AMU vice-chancellor and Lt Gen (retd) Zameer Uddin Shah and businessman Saeed Shervani from the Muslim side.

The five had met Bhagwat under the aegis of ‘Alliance for Economic and Educational Development of the Underprivileged (AEEDU)’, an organisation floated by them. Since the August meeting, the AEEDU has been meeting Muslim leaders individually, as part of its dialogue with the RSS, in Delhi, Lucknow, Hyderabad and Bangalore.

Sources said that a day ahead of the January 14 meeting, Muslim leaders including presidents of both the factions of the Jamiat Ulama-i-Hind – Mahmood Madani and Arshad Madani – met at the residence of Siddiqui, where talks took place not only on what was to be discussed with the RSS, but also what had been talked about last time. The AEEDU members explained the RSS stand on some issues of concern of the community. While the Madanis eventually did not attend the meeting with the RSS, they sent their representatives.

A leader said they pointed out at the January 13 meeting that the Sangh had raised the use of “kafir” for non-Muslims and terms like jihad. “The Ulemas agreed that this was a valid concern, and that there was no place in India for language such as this. The Ulemas also pointed out that such language is not used by religious leaders, but sometimes by political leaders for their own personal gain. Kafir, for instance, does not pertain to Indian Hindus at all, as the Arabic word means a denier of God,’’ the leader said.

One of those present at the January 14 meeting said they expressed their concern over some parts of Bhagwat’s interview to Panchjanya and Organiser weeklies, which the Ulemas wanted raised. “The RSS representatives read out those parts of the interview to the Muslim leaders, and it was felt that the contents were not as concerning as perceived. The RSS leaders explained that when Bhagwat talked about ‘supremacy’ (he had said that no one should carry a feeling of supremacy), he meant it in context of all other religions and not just Muslims. They also said that even Hindus should not consider themselves superior.”

The Muslim leaders also raised the issue of gatherings designated as dharma sabhas, which often see hate speeches and calls for genocide. They said the RSS agreed that this was “problematic”, but added that it did not have any control over such organisations or gatherings.

“We told them that even if they could not stop such things, once they do take place, the RSS must condemn such events publicly,” said a leader.

“Many things were discussed. The main issues that we touched upon were lawlessness, mob lynchings, genocide calls, demolitions of Muslim homes and businesses as well as the unnecessary arrests of Muslims and the judicial and administrative bias against them once they had been arrested. We also pointed out that when hate speeches were made against the Muslim community – such as a BJP leader saying ‘goli maro saalo ko’ – no action was taken against them. We said that if the RSS’s goal was to create a just society, then there is no place for speeches like this. We requested that, in the future, they issue statements against such speeches,” said Moatasim Kha, the Secretary, Muslim Community Affairs, Jamaat-e-Islami Hind, who attended the meeting.

On the RSS’s worry over cow slaughter and, what it called, the “dangerous” practice of Muslims living in ghettos, Khan said: “We explained to them that Muslim communities living in ghettos was a result of riots or communal tensions, and a need to feel sure. If the government were to provide a secure environment, then Muslims would not live in ghettos.”

The Jamaat-e-Islami Hind leader said that they also tried to dispel the other misconceptions the RSS has about the Muslim community, and the Sangh leaders said they wanted to do likewise.

The RSS leaders proposed that future meetings between them be held outside Delhi, in other parts of the country.