Walk the Talk

So tell me,a Dilliwalah in Bollywood. There are not many of your type.

Actually,I didn’t plan it. I just kept doing what one had to do and one day,I found myself on the director’s chair. Like any middle-class Indian,(I wanted) to find a job,contribute to the family income and keep going. But (I) got into advertising. That led me to filmmaking.

Tell me about this rediscovery of Delhi by Hindi cinema. In fact,discovery of Delhi – there has been so little of Delhi in the past and now,you can’t make a film without it.

It’s basically the social,economic and cultural evolvement (sic) of Delhi. Whenever places in the world evolve,they start attracting various things. Delhi was always a very political place. It did not extend its warmth to other sectors.

Were you disappointed by the way Delhi-6 did? It was a complex and interesting film.

I was heartbroken. It was declared a flop and I could not take it. It was a complex film,but I didn’t make it because it was complex. I made it because there is this crisis in me and I have to reflect that to the world. I’ve grown up in Delhi-6 and there was this thing about Hindu-Muslim enmity. I’ve never understood the concept of God,never understood ki mandir todke uspe masjid bana diya,masjid todke vaapas mandir banao (Demolish a temple to build a mosque,demolish that to build back a temple). And whatever is my own crisis,I have to find answers,make a movie about that. That’s the only way I can find out for myself.

In many ways,the music and lyrics were the sutradhar in Rang De Basanti (RDB). And I think your friend Prasoon (Joshi,lyricist) was involved there.

Absolutely. Masti ki pathshala,Khoon chala,Rang de basanti,Luka chhuppi… they were the soul of the film,the voice. Right from day one,I was very clear,the sound of the film has to be more poetry than ‘song-song’. And it has to be the voice… (For me,) it was Sahir Ludhianvi.

You are a great fan of Sahir Ludhianvi…

I realised late in life that whatever songs I’ve liked,grown up listening to,all belong to him.

Very few of us remember Har fiqr ko dhuein mein udata chala gaya…

Unka ek sher hai (There’s a couplet of his),‘Bahut dino se hai mashkala siyasat ka/Jab jawaan ho bachche toh qatl ho jaaye’. That became the inspiration for writing RDB.

‘Since time immemorial,this is the tragedy of politics. That as your children grow into youth,they get killed.’

And that’s what we saw in (the) Mandal Commission. That’s what I observed when the MiGs were crashing.

Basically,you cannot suppress the spirit of sacrifice… So this led to RDB?

This led to RDB. This college led to RDB. We used to hang out here and talk about changing the world,changing India. We would say,‘Saare politicians ko line mein khada karke goli maar denge (We will line the politicians up and shoot them). We will enter Parliament.’ Being typical middle-class Indians,everybody went about their jobs. Aur desh ko bhool gaye hum. Kyunki apni yaad aa gayi. (We forgot about the nation,because we remembered ourselves.)

It was around RDB that your gang came into being — Aamir Khan,Prasoon,Rakeysh Omprakash Mehra?

AR Rahman and Waheeda Rehman,the ‘gang’ leader.

At our annual Screen awards,one year,she was the jury chairperson. I have to escort the chairperson to the stage. As we were climbing the rickety staircase,she gave me her arm and I said,‘I can now tell my grandchildren that I had Waheeda Rehman on my arm.’ She said,‘I am 67.’ I said,‘Doesn’t matter. You could be 97. You are Waheeda Rehman.’I actually proposed to her,you know.

Oh,you did?

Yeah! I said,‘You know if… will you marry me?’ And she laughed. I am totally in love with her; not with the persona but with the person.

What is it that you find so fascinating about her?

I think it’s her cinema. It’s the choices she made in life. If I look at 10 films I love,or that have had an impact on me — whether it is Pyaasa,Kagaz ke Phool,Mujhe Jeene Do or Guide,Reshma aur Shera — I didn’t go because Waheeda Rehman was there. But years later,I realised how much impact she has made with her performances. That means those were the choices she made. It didn’t happen to her by accident.

To me,she was the first Muslim film actor who insisted on not changing her name.

That part of her personality gets extended to her work. These are the people who inspired me,the people who,when I got an opportunity to work with,made so much difference to my life. Whether it was Waheedaji,Rahman,the way they go about their work,it is worship for them. And here’s a Delhi boy who has never gone to film school,saw a camera for the first time on a shoot — I’ve never assisted anybody — this is my film school. With every film,I’m learning. So,when I make Bhaag Milkha Bhaag (BMB) today,it feels like I’ve finished my first year of film school. And now I’m ready to go to the second year and understand more.

For BMB,you didn’t think of Aamir?

I did think of Aamir. And we did test a lot of ‘Milkha Singhs’ all over the world.But my instinct took me to Farhan (Akhtar).

What was the thing that told you it’s him?

Ek androoni awaaz hoti hai (There’s an inner voice) that tells you something if you can shut off the noise around you. I started relating to it.

For a nafees Urduwala to become a hot-blooded Sardar,it’s a turnaround.

No,it just goes out to say that there’s no Sardar and no Urduwala. We are all the same. We divide ourselves in the name of religion,caste,creed,surnames. Everybody is just human and if you are a little gora (fair),it’s because of the pigmentation of your skin and the weather.

I noticed there’s a little bit of Sikh prayer and scriptures,even in RDB.

Spiritualism has always fascinated me. BMB was more about healing than about an athlete. So the beginning of the film is when he loses a race…

So was an entire generation of Punjabis. Bengalis also,Punjabis,in particular.

Absolutely. I’ve never understood Partition. One day,you draw a line of hatred and you say,‘now this is one country,that is one country.’ But that doesn’t mean you cannot interact. We have to grow up. Look at Europe.

The number of wars France and Germany have fought…

Now they are fighting on the football field. The end of the film is a healing process because when Milkha turns,he sees his childhood smiling and running with him. It was a lost childhood. Like (those of) the children of the Holocaust,the Rwanda genocide or the Apartheid. Whenever they’re oppressed,people have come out and set the pace for generations to come.

The government of India should have set up a memorial for the killing of Sikhs in 1984. Now we are fighting with a gurdwara setting up a memorial. You have to apply closure instead of being defensive.

‘Sorry’ is the most meaningful and misused of expressions in the English language. At times,you say sorry when you really don’t mean it. But to mean sorry,it’s the greatest virtue,because you’re offering your ego on a platter.

Are you going to continue staying close to young people? Because,in many ways,BMB is also a film about young people.

It is for my 12-year-old son and my 13-and-a-half-year-old daughter. To tell them it’s not about the facilities or the Nike shoes you’re wearing or the laptop you have. It’s about something which is inside you and unless you have that passion,you will not do it. Look at Milkha Singh. He didn’t have his mother and father,he saw their massacre in front of his eyes; he didn’t have shoes to wear,food to eat,stayed in a refugee camp,picked up a knife,became a thief. How does he become a world-beater? When Vedant saw it,he was quiet for a day. He is a squash player,India ranking (in the) under-12 (category). He convinced his coach,and took all his friends,30 of them,to see the film. Since then,I see a little more respect in my son’s eyes for me. I hope it is clear that it’s not just about the facilities. I hope he remembers that for a while.

You’re looking at some historicals or classical musicians and things like that?

There is a part of me that believes in mythology; which wants to explore romance. When we make the movie,we’ll discover what romance is,and how illogical it is. The way it has been fed to us that there is great sacrifice in not getting the girl you loved,it’s none of that. Hamari training bahut convoluted hui hai (Our training’s been very convoluted). This lifetime will be about getting out of everything that has been taught to us.

I knew you were a risk-taker. You even persuaded Amitabh Bachchan to grow his goatee. What happened?

Nothing,he resisted. We do resist change. Especially with a persona like his…

And you were just a boy at that point.

I would want to believe that I’m a boy right now. Yeah,he resisted because I think he was so caught up in his image. All our actors are victims of that. That’s how the economics start working. The moment you try and transform yourself,people reject you,they spit you out. So when we gave him a goatee,there was resistance. But I insisted. I said this is it,it’s a deal-breaker.

For Aks?

On small things like this,I used to say deal-breaker. And it always used to work.

But credit to him,he listened to you.

Oh,complete credit. He painstakingly learned how to grow a beard. Now,that has become the image. So the next time I work with him,the first thing will be to shave off the beard.

Rakeysh Mehra,risk-taker,keep doing more of it.

I don’t know whether to accept the ‘risk-taker’ tag,but it feels good. Thank you very much.

*Transcribed by Rajkrishnan Menon. For the full interview,visit www.indianexpress.com