‘The Salwa Judum will be written about in history once it is a success’

We are ready to talk to the Naxals, but they are extorting money from the tribals in the name of working for their rights. Salwa Jadum’s motive is to bring back peace.

It is also correct that there have been more deaths in the last two-three years. The Naxals think the Salwa Judum revolution should be ended. This is a fight of thoughts (ideologies) that is going on. It’s not government-sponsored, but we are helping them in whatever way we can.

AMITAV RANJAN: You have been meeting the Home Ministry to demand extra Central forces for hot pursuit of Naxalites. What’s the position right now? What is the role of the Centre in that?

It’s unfortunate. There’s a policy for the North-East, Jammu & Kashmir, Punjab. I’ve told the Prime Minister that the Naxal problem is not localised. It’s not a local law & order problem. At least this should be acknowledged. The next important thing that should be acknowledged is that at the national level, the Prime Minister, the Home Minister and the Chief Minister of a state should work together on an integrated action plan. I’ve seen the kind of security blanket Srinagar has been given. I’ve asked for such a policy. I’ve said that (to tackle the Naxalite problem) we should have a joint task force in conjunction with neighbouring states. We also need a five-year development plan for Naxal-affected regions. I’ve told the Home Minister that we lack roads, infrastructure, and even security and police personnel. But the problem is that discussions are held, our opinions taken, but these schemes are not implemented.

VINAY JHA: You have talked about joint task forces, unified policies. But there is criticism that whatever assistance the state is being provided is not being utilised properly — the funding or the forces. What do you have to say on this?

We are given funds and we do work with them. We talked about three issues: we need funds to raise a battalion, we need bullet-proof jackets, vehicles, new weapons, other equipment. We want to take all this to the police-station level. Forty per cent of our police stations work from buildings that are more than 50 years old and have no boundary walls. They don’t even have proper fencing. With the state budget finances, we have employed 13,000 police personnel in three years, something no other state has done. But when it comes to achieving connectivity for police stations — by laying roads, for example — it becomes difficult. Laying a kilometre of road takes a year. The contractor comes and his equipment and trucks are set afire. Roads laid using bitumen have been destroyed and they are just mud paths now. After 12 tenders are out, one contractor applies. As soon as he starts work, a couple of grenades are thrown and work is stalled.

Utilising funds by purchasing stuff is fine, but the problem is different, the terrain is difficult, strengthening infrastructure is a tough task.

But we are working fast in other areas, like policing. We are raising and training an entire new generation of police personnel. Someone with a 44-inch waist can’t run for 16 km fire shots and come back. We are training a new generation, some 3,000 personnel, in a jungle warfare college. We are training boys to be able to go for 20 km in the jungles, fight and come back. But it will take time. Naxalism is a 30-40 year problem. But if we work on this patiently and with a cool head, we’ll make Chhattisgarh a better place. When will that happen? I cannot say.

SHEKHAR GUPTA: We heard that in Andhra, the Naxalites were once encircled and could have been annihilated. But it was sensed that because of instructions from Delhi, they were freed. You are sitting in a Naxal-affected state. Please tell us about the incident as per your understanding.

In and after 2004, there have been many small and big encounters with Naxals. I don’t know about the specific incident in Andhra Pradesh. This is the second stage of Naxal violence. They don’t want to discuss anything, just attack and loot our district headquarters, jails, police stations. There should be no question of compromising with them, or saving them if they have fallen. If that happens, it will be demoralising for the local people and the police personnel. In Chhattisgarh, we haven’t till date been told to hold back and not move forward against the Naxalites.

In Chhattisgarh, we have also managed to get together everyone on the issue. Ninety MLAs of the ruling party, the Opposition, police officers, and the chief secretary attended the closed-door meeting, which went on for eight hours. We discussed the government’s role and told them to raise objections if they had any. I also unveiled my future plan against the Naxalites. The meeting was quite successful, and we conveyed the details to the Home Ministry. At least on the Naxal issue, there are not many differences amongst us in Chhattisgarh.

AMITAV RANJAN: You have tried a lot to establish Internet and IT connectivity in your state. What has been your success rate in that?

We did three things. First, we connected all district headquarters in two years. Then we introduced the concept of e-classrooms, connected engineering colleges and hospitals. Our state treasuries are all connected and so are our patwaris. We get day-to-day information on revenue collection, people have obtained deed papers for their land. We also tied up with 25-30 private people and asked them to help with railway tickets, air tickets, birth and death certificates. Now we have connectivity at village level too. At the click of a mouse, information on population, cattle, water pumps, irrigation facilities and so forth is available.

VARGHESE K GEORGE: Despite all this not many of your party MLAs are happy with you. Why?

That’s a very good question: what is the desired level of satisfaction? In politics, this (dissidence) has been happening and will continue to happen. It’s decided that there will be only one chief minister and a cabinet of 12 ministers. Not everyone can be made the chief minister, and nor can different people be made chief minister for different times in the tenure. But I have got an opportunity and am working on it. But there are other people who may be more accomplished than me, but they haven’t got the chance. They may feel they deserved the post, but people in the party make the decision.

VANDITA MISHRA: But the infighting in Chhattisgarh is the most. More than in all BJP-ruled states, is it not?

There’s infighting in every state, whether ruled by the Congress or the BJP. For example, in Chhattisgarh, for the last two years, the Congress hasn’t been able to elect a state president. We (the BJP) have a president, general-secretary etc. But we don’t compare ourselves with the Congress. Be it Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh, Chhattisgarh or even Rajasthan, wherever we are in government, we sit together and decide on issues.

SHEKHAR GUPTA: Like in all other states, even in Chhattisgarh politics has become very bitter, there are cases and counter-cases. On one side there was Judeo and on the other Jogi. Why that level of bitterness? Do you think that, since both parties have been equally affected by Naxalites, it has brought them close to each other? Or is the bitterness persisting?

In politics, if you treat the opposition like an enemy, it causes problems. Whatever our experience with three years of Congress government, we haven’t done anything to crush the Opposition — lathi-charges or filing false cases. No Opposition leader can say we are meting out injustice to them. Every subject is discussed. Everyday. And full freedom is given to them. In Chhattisgarh I feel we have done better than other states. We have created a good atmosphere.

SHEKHAR GUPTA: What’s the status of diamond prospecting in your state?

De Beers and six or seven of the world’s biggest companies are working in Chhatisgarh. We give them 5,000 square kilometres for prospecting, then they come down to working in 1,000 square kilometres. It’s a very long process. The big players have come to the second stage in prospecting. In four or five years they will reach the mining stage. Even in gold, we’ve made progress. Some matters are in high court, and in the Supreme Court. The day diamonds are found in Chhattisgarh, we won’t have to depend on other resources. I also joke that the day Chhattisgarh diamonds reach the market, the prices will fall. But even De Beers understands that Chhattisgarh diamonds are better than those from South Africa. But these companies take time to work. For now, they have stocks to last them in sales for ten years. If those stocks are opened, and diamonds from Chhattisgarh also arrive in the market, prices will definitely fall, because prices are decided by availability. They know this.

What will the Chhattisgarh government get? Just royalty. We will however get value-addition — such as cutting and polishing — done in the state itself, generating employment. We hope to provide jobs to 10,000-50,000 people.

BHAWESH MISHRA: There might be an election soon. If the NDA comes back to power, who, according to you, should be the next Prime Minister? And who will be the next Prime Minister?

Thanks for saying this. This kind of prediction feels good! One can’t say when elections will take place. But in the BJP it has been decided for some time now that our established leaders, Atalji and Advaniji, and the parliamentary board will decide. Atalji, Advaniji and Rajnathji are already there. There are a lot of people, but the board will decide.

VARGHESE K GEORGE: You say the BJP will come back to power in 2008, but when it does, will you want to be Chief Minister again?

This is very clear. I was in Delhi for four years as a minister. They told me to go to the state as the party president. I resigned as minister and went to Chhattisgarh as the state party president. I wasn’t promised chief ministership when I went. The party told me to go and I did. Later, the central leadership and the representatives decided to make me the Chief Minister. In the next elections, the BJP and the elected representatives will decide the next Chief Minister. It’s the organisation that has brought me to the level of Chief Minister. I can’t decide who will be the next Chief Minister.

VARGHESE K GEORGE: There’s a belief that because of Chhattisgarh’s tribal and non-tribal politics, now only a tribal will become the Chief Minister.

The candidate can be tribal or SC/ST. In the BJP, whether in Chhattisgarh or in other parts of the nation, this kind of thought process does not exist. For everyone, the door of opportunity is open and he gets a chance according to his performance.