‘I would put Shah Rukh Khan in a situation in which he was the underdog…vulnerable’

• Well that is good. But if it spreads then somebody will move the Indian Parliament to limit your pickings.

That’s funny.

• Well, wonderful to have you in Delhi, the Padma Shri is on now, so congratulations.

I’m so excited to be here. I can’t believe that we are here. I kind of came in and was made aware of the award just a month ago. And I decided to come and, here we are. It’s an amazing thing.

• In India Gate.

I know. Actually, I’ve been to India some eight-nine times since I was a little kid but we always went to the south, you know, to visit the aunts and the uncles and the grandma and grandpa and all that stuff.

• I believe uncles and aunts and cousins and siblings — all PhDs and MDs.

Yeah, I’m the black sheep of the family.

• How did you get dropped out?

I’m the disgrace to the family, the least educated one of the family.

•But you make as much money as the rest of them (laugh) and (have) a lot more fame. But what happened? What made you go the other way?

Well, it wasn’t something that I thought about — not doing medicine. You know, all my family is in medicine, but it was a slow thing, realising that the thing I was doing for fun as a little kid, making movies with my dad’s camera, is something that you can go to school for. It wasn’t something that — I mean, now you can go to school for film school and it seems more normal, but back then it wasn’t — it isn’t something you could learn to do as a career. And I heard about this school in New York, that it’s a film school, and I told my parents, ‘Hey, I want to go to film school.’

•But a camera, a movie camera at the age of eight? How did that happen?

I guess that’s weird enough in itself. But you know at the time when I was a kid, we had Spielberg (Steven) making ET.

• You’re 1970 born, I think.

1970. So ET was in 1982, and Jaws was 1975. Then Raiders of the Lost Ark, which was huge for me, in 1983. Spielberg was doing his thing right when I was a little kid. And when I saw those movies I said, ‘You know, that’s what I want to do!’

• And how did your parents figure it? Because in an Indian household, for a kid who’s eight, it’s the parents who figure things?

(Laughs) When I was eight, they didn’t think anything of it. They just thought it was a kind of funny thing that I did. So they just let me do it and then they would watch the movies and then they would giggle with the family and I would take the cousins and the neighbours and we’d make these movies and they would be terrible. They would be just absolutely horrible and everyone would just sit and laugh at them and they thought it was just funny. And then I would go and do my school work, and I was fairly good at school work, so they thought, ‘OK, he’ll become a doctor, and it’ll be just fine.’ But when I became a teenager, I got more and more serious into the filmmaking of it, and they knew I really liked it as a hobby, and I went one summer when I was 16 to go to study film, just to see what it was like and I think my parents hoped that I would come back and say ‘Not for me’

•This sucks!

Well, it did suck (laughs) but still I came back and said, ‘It’s still for me.’ And they were like, ‘Ugh!’ And then I went to a film school and they’ve been worried ever since, and I think only until this week, when we came for the Padma Shri, that they are a little bit more relaxed about it all.

• Finally, at least he discovers his Indian roots (laughs). This is the wonderful thing about us Indians, the moment somebody acquires a little bit of fame, we lay claims on him. Then even if someone has even one twig of the family tree in India, he’s an Indian. When Sunita Williams was honoured and she became such a big star, and we kept reminding people that she is half-Slovenian, so remember little Slovenia.

Yeah, I know. I meet a lot of people on the street who said, ‘I met your cousin, I met your cousin.’ They’ll say this and I am like, ‘That’s not my cousin.’ There are lots of Indians saying, ‘I’m his cousin, I’m related to him this way, that way, married to this. . .’

•For all you know they might be . . .

It’s true. I got a lot of cousins.

•The family trees stretch in India . . .

In fact when my cousins meet people who say, ‘I’m his cousin’ and they go, ‘No, I am his cousin.’

•But that’s flattering.

It is. It’s very sweet. And then we call everybody Uncle and Auntie anyway, and it’s like, ‘Uncle . . .’

• Yeah, anybody you meet in the flight.

Yeah, exactly.

• So tell me, how Indian do you feel? Or does this remind you of your Indian origins more?

I feel a great balance between here and the life I’ve led in the west. My parents are very traditional and feel very comfortable. I don’t feel lost or anything. My wife is Indian and obviously our children are Indian.

• In fact, your mom came to India to deliver you.

That’s correct. They were in the United States and they wanted me to be Indian!

• For an Indian doctor couple to choose to have a baby here and that too in 1970.

Right. They were very progressive in their thinking and first of all just going to United States in that manner and at that time my mom was one of the first female doctors in that entire area.

•Did you talk a lot of politics at the family dining table? History, politics?

Now, we talk a lot about politics because of what’s happening in the United States, and the presidency this year.

• No prizes for guessing which side are you on.

(Laughs) Definitely everybody, at every dining table in the United States, is talking about the elections. It’s the first that the whole country has actually cared about what’s happening. I mean, I think our generation, we felt that politics is not really for us. It’s just those guys.

•What about you?

Well, I’m a Democrat.

•Well, I said no prizes for guessing that, but whose side are you on?

Well, I’m still deciding. You know, I’m sounding very political.

• You sound like the vote count in Indiana, neither here nor there. But which one of the two do you support?

Well, I have talked to both (Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama) and attended the debates. They had a debate in Philadelphia and they are both very strong candidates, just different leaders. They almost have the exact same platforms. They’re almost identical.

•Give us the filmmaker’s take on Hillary and Barack. Describe them as characters on the political screen.

Well, I think you would be surer of what you’re going to get with Hillary. She’s really good. They both have incredible stories to tell — to be the first woman to be the president, to be the wife of the most popular president. To be able to stand with him. As a character, Barack, on the other hand, is a very smart guy, very charismatic, guy of change, and you don’t know what you going to get. So if you feel insecure about that, then you know which one you can go (for). They’re both great leaders. That’s why I’m saying it’s hard to choose between the two of them. What’s amazing in the United States is that it can change on a dime. As you can see it, there’s a chance that in whatever it is, November, just a few months, the entire chemistry of their country will change. That makes me feel good, that we are not stuck.

• And you would wish that it changes?

Yes, I would. Yeah, I think it’s time to change, because I think the generation has changed and these leaders can take us forward into thinking from my generation and those younger than me even.

• Mystery and fear are the two threads in your movies. Where does it come from?

I think it’s tied a little bit to the politics. All my last four movies, and now The Happening, are about the fear of where the world is going.

•In fact The Village is almost like a parable of 9/11.

It’s fear of where our society is going. You know, I fear for my daughter, walking down the street, and I fear for what could happen. . . I want to protect them. Where are we going to go? And, is there hope for us? The Village is about a group of people who decide, ‘Well, there’s no hope.’

•And you do this other thing: you pick these action guys and give them these non-action roles.

You know why I think they are heroes is not because they have big muscles. It’s because, in a situation where terrorists take over, say, they can convey humanity, vulnerability, and, you know, they are stars. So, I take them out of that mould and let them be charismatic, charming, but don’t let them beat up anybody.

•What would you do with Shah Rukh Khan? I know you compared him to Mel Gibson. . .

Is he an action guy?

•Whatever he is, he’s The Guy.

I’d definitely not let him beat up anybody. Because I think that would limit him too much. I definitely would put him in a situation where he was an underdog in the story. . . vulnerable.

• Shah Rukh Khan as underdog doesn’t work.

It does work, it does work.

•I mean not so far.

That’s it. I’m going to do another story.

• You’ve seen a few Hindi films.

Yes, very few

• You’ve seen Kabhi Khushi Kabhie Gham.

Oh yes.

•Satyam Shivam Sundaram. With Zeenat Aman.

Oh yes, that was unbelievable, I was so impressed. She was amazing. You can’t take your eyes off her.

•It’s surprising that the one that fixed your mind most was SSS, as it was called.

Oh really! Well, I found it so provocative, I can’t believe that someone broke all those taboos. How did that happen? I mean how did they let that happen?

•Raj Kapoor did and it somehow slipped through.

Wow, amazingly powerful movie for me, though it was heightened reality . . . I want to see a lot of Indian movies you know. I mean when I get some time, I want my wife to give me this Top 100 list.

•That may corrupt you completely and that may corrupt Hollywood also. So, what do you find most interesting about Indian movies. You’ve talked about the sort of old fashioned story telling?

What I find most interesting there is the lack of subtlety. Nobody is talking normally like this. It’s never this level of conversation, it’s always like . . . like big emotions and it’s always like, if I’m being funny, I’m always being overtly funny, if I’m being upset, I’m overupset. It’s never on a balanced scale.

•Never understated.

Never understated and so, as long as you are consistent with that, which they are from beginning to end, then you can’t try to do something.

•That’s why Bollywood has such strong Punjabi metaphors to everything.

Is that right?

•So direct and powerful and unsettled.

Yes, and then you have the big speech where you’re leaving the family business and you’re taking the money and it’s up and they’re pushing it in your face, and the music is hitting and then all my reactions . . . and the archetypes — you are the evil person and you are taking all the money and now we are destitute and what are we going to do and you don’t care, and how are we going to make it, and you walk out and we are lost. You know these big moments and it keeps you anchored and you don’t have to do as much intellectual work, which is good, I think, for us as storytellers to remember.

•And nothing is left to chance.

Well, there’s less interpretation involved. Of whether you are evil.

•Right. In fact I saw some place that you said, I think you talked of Kabhi Khushi Kabhie Gham, and you said that they have the star, they starred that dude in every film. That’s Shah Rukh.

Yeah, I keep forgetting his name and I was like, ‘Well, he’s in all the movies that I saw.’

•You say that again and they might withdraw your Padma Shri.

Oh really? Oh no.

•You can’t ever forget Shah Rukh Khan’s name.

Shah Rukh Khan, he’s on the cover of a magazine right now, so that’s good.

•So when do we see a stronger Indian metaphor in a Manoj Night Shyamalan movie?

I don’t know. When it feels accurate in depicting me, as a human being, as where I am. Obviously, more and more experiences in India and it’ll naturally happen.

•Is there something, some frame that you might have seen in the last few days that might stay back in your head.

Well, you know, I don’t know if I’m answering your question, but when I came, and I haven’t been here in like nine and a half years and I felt like, like I came into Mumbai and did some promotion there and I was struck about how different everything had become. There was a larger middle class– this is just a broad statement I’m making — and that struck me, as people jogging and they are all in their health thing, and they are jogging, and these are the kinds of things that make them completely more a part of the global setup. I think they are integrating really at an incredible pace and that might be interesting.

•The Oscar guys haven’t been kind to you so far.

No, the Oscar guys, they are fine you know. Only two non-white directors have ever been nominated and I’m one of them.

•And across the next one you need an India theme movie, because India is so sexy right now.

Oh yes, that’s true. Maybe the story of the Indian scientist who discovered something would have a better chance I think.

•You talked about tradition. Tell us about this thing that you are wearing on your neck.

This was given to me by my dad. It has this to keep me grounded he said, or I think he meant, like, balanced. And so the rope that he gave it to me on was long, and it fragmented and came off. This is kind of rubber, an Italian chain thing on which I wear it now, and it’s been on this for years.

•But you are still very rooted in your family.

Yeah, for sure

•With your parents and your children, both the generations.

I feel that when people say it, it doesn’t make any sense . . . but to me all my movies are about family.

•And there’s the presence of a child. Does being a young father help?

Definitely. There’s definitely an influence. Lady in the Water, and the next movie after The Happening, which is called Avatar: The Last Airbender, those are family movies.

•I believe your screenplay (of Stuart Little) was much more serious.

Yeah. I mean I wrote the one that you saw as well, but the first one that wrote was very serious and they said . . .

•Tone down.

Yeah, and so then I made the funny version and they made that one.

•Bollywoodised a little bit?

You know what, they Bollywoodised it a little bit after I left. I went to do Sixth Sense and they brought in a couple of joke people who put in all kinds of jokes and things like that, but the essence of the movie that’s there was the screenplay.

•You’ve seen Bachchan?

Have I seen what?

•Bachchan?

No.

• In a movie, you have. Amitabh Bachchan.

Oh yes, yes, you were using shorthand, you got to say the full name.

•I could have said the Big B.

I definitely wouldn’t have known that.

•Amitabh Bachchan, what do you think of him?

Fantastic. I saw him on the news yesterday and he was doing another movie and he has such majesty about him. And I was thinking how long has he been acting? It seems like he’s now back as the centre of everything again and what an incredible longevity he’s had.

•You see someone like him in one of your movies at some at some point?

Definitely, he just glows when he’s onscreen. You know some people have it, it’s not something that you can think about, it’s not even about acting skills, it’s IT. You know that you glow and he has it all over the place. There was a funny story when I was a kid. I was like ten and there were these Indian girls that I liked and we were playing and one of them was jealous and one them was saying something and said that, ‘She told me that she likes you more than she likes Amitabh Bachchan.’ And I was like who’s this guy? I was upset about this kid named Amitabh Bachchan that I have to deal with to get this girl. And it turned out he was an actor.

•You could figure him out now. But tell me Manoj, before I let you go, I know it’s a question you’ve been asked a hundred times, but please tell us also, where does Night come from? I know it fits in beautifully with your brand of movies now, dark and mysterious and fearful. Tell us the history.

I didn’t have a middle name.

• You are Nelliyattu?

No, that’s a misconception. I had no middle name at all. So Manoj is my first name, then no middle name and then Shyamalan. When I was seventeen I got the scholarships to go to NYU and I had to become a citizen to accept those scholarships, government scholarships. So it was this big moment of deciding who I am and I looked at that moment when I saw that I didn’t have a middle name, as this is the moment, a moment of who you are. In a way it kind of feels very natural to go, that you have your family name and then they name you your first name based on who they think you are. And then they leave the middle free, because when you realise who you are, you then name . . . it’s almost like a process that’s perfect. And at that time I thought about an Indian name or an American name, and neither of those felt right. And I was studying the American Indian culture at that point.

•So what Indian names did you think of?

Well, of course, my dad was pushing his name and my mom was pushing her name, and she’s like you already have his last name, take my middle name and nothing felt right in terms of taking an Indian name. A straight Indian name that way. And I was studying the American Indian culture. And the American Indian culture is based on nature and the worship of the sky, the birds, the hawks, the ground, the earth, the rocks and all of that stuff and I find that philosophy very beautiful and really correct. That the one thing we can look up to, that we considered ourselves servants of this, the world would be a better place. And I just felt right intuitively of their worship of nature and thing and one of the names I saw was an Indian name Night, which I think was a female name, but it just appealed to me as this beautiful, resonant thing and only years later maybe I guess I realised that I was actually making movies that represents the name in such perfect way. So intuitively, at 17, I kind of had a feeling of things.

•Well, it obviously fitted beautifully as most of the instincts in all your movies Manoj. Keep coming up with more and more, and keep coming back to India, let’s wait for the big opus out of India now.

Yes, there will be one, one day.

•And the Oscar, that’s the ticket.

Thank you so much.

•Thank you.