Vinesh Phogat at Idea Exchange: When women raise their voices, they are targeted first

Those involved in the system wonder how a woman can speak so much against the system. They aren’t happy when women talk against the system.

When other athletes raise their voices when it comes to trials etc, it’s okay.

But when women raise their voices, they are targeted first. They ask, how did we get so much courage to speak against the system.

They say something but in their heart there is something else, and they portray something totally different. How we were being treated earlier, it’s the same. There’s no change in that aspect.

Nihal Koshie: How difficult was it for the victims and you to take that step?

It was difficult to explain to the girls’ families, to explain to ourselves and those around us that we’ve started this fight and have to continue. We were scared too. We fear the police. The first day when we took all the girls and went to the police station with the complaints, we feared the police so much because we had not faced them before.

Yes, we do have family members in the police but we’ve never faced them in such a situation. We didn’t know how the cops talk at the police station, or how they behave.

#WATCH | "I have not yet received the FIR copy. I will speak once I've received the FIR copy," says Brijbhushan Sharan Singh, President, Wrestling Federation of India on wrestlers' protest against him and FIRs registered by Delhi police pic.twitter.com/FvU1FxkI35

— ANI (@ANI) April 29, 2023

The ministry told us to give them time and they would file an FIR according to the results of their finding. They told us not to worry about anything and that they would do everything. Now we think that we should have filed an FIR at that time itself and not waited.

Actually, we didn’t have courage at the time to file an FIR because we were wondering what would happen, and whom would we have to explain to. Media also, sometimes, troubles the victim by asking questions about the incident and what proof do we have. The families are also scared, wondering what their children are talking about openly.

We got fired up and started this fight. We thought it was a mistake to take on the system. We could’ve just not bothered and been happy wrestling. I mean, I can compete for another four-five years. I’ll compete at the Paris Olympics for sure. The family is crazy for an Olympic medal. And just before that, we are protesting. So many situations have risen, but somewhere we have found the courage. The fire for justice doesn’t die.

We know that we will get support from somewhere. God is not stone-hearted to see us struggle and fight so much, and then make us suffer.

Nihal Koshie: What led you to file an FIR now?

To be honest, we didn’t plan to file the FIR. And those who we are against never expected us to file the FIR either. They thought that if we actually wanted to file an FIR, we would have filed it then. As female athletes, they knew the problem or perhaps were trying to ignore it on purpose. They took advantage of our situation. They knew we were scared and respected people.

After the FIR, it’s like telling people that we are truthful, we have done nothing wrong. It’s good to get so much support. We have fought for smaller things, not for such a big thing. I believe in god and that he has a plan for everything. We have fought so much and he’ll not let it go to waste. He’s in control of everything. His plans are executed through us.

Mihir Vasavda: You could’ve finished your career comfortably, gone to Olympics, Brij Bhushan’s tenure as president was also getting over. What was the thinking behind picking up this fight now?

Actually, at trials and competitions where Brij Bhushan used to be there, he would say things like, ‘I’ll be in wrestling for (another) 20 years’. We thought this is not going to stop if he continues for 20 years. So many wrestlers will come into the sport and he’ll still be around. In my family, too, girls are getting into wrestling, they will be a certain age but Brij Bhushan will still be around. We tolerated somehow, and got out of the situation with courage. But what if the new athletes don’t even reach that level where they’ll be heard? That was worrying, that he’s here for the long haul. He considers it his fiefdom and everyone will be crushed under his feet. He’ll do whatever he feels like.

Mihir Vasavda: How was it dealing with the Federation officials?

How do I explain this? Suppose I have to go late to the national camp; for that you have to call (assistant secretary Vinod) Tomar; Tomar will ask neta (Brij Bhushan), then I have to ask the chief coach. He will ask for an application even if nothing is in his hands. Then Tomar won’t pick up the call the next day. If he’s angry with me, he’ll issue a show cause notice.

If my family has to get a certificate signed for a cash award from the Haryana government, if I’m not around they won’t even sign and will demand the athlete comes herself. They’ll keep troubling for the smallest of things. They’ll act obnoxiously and threaten by using the neta’s name. The treatment was awful. Even a tea-seller there had this attitude that ‘who the hell are you? I am the boss’. Even the water boy had a lot of attitude.

The way any athlete would be treated when we were going for any competition, and the facilities given to us would be of zero quality. We would mail asking them to send us two days in advance or for a physio that we need desperately, or to give us a good coach. It’s not like we can wrestle till 50 years. Our career span is small. Half of it goes in gaining experience, and when we are experienced these people don’t support us. We would be more exhausted dealing with them rather than in training or competition. Athletes are of no value in their eyes.

Mihir Vasavda: You have made a lot of comments about the Federation, Sports Ministry and Sports Authority of India. If the solution is reached to your satisfaction, how easy or difficult will it be for you to make a return to top-level competitions?

That’s a difficult question. We are thinking about what the situation can be in the future. But now that we have put our hand in the lion’s mouth, why be afraid! If we don’t say anything, then too we will be targeted, and if we open our mouths, something bad will happen to us. So let’s say it and face the consequences.

We know that we will face tough times, even if we win this fight. Not just during our careers, even after that, attempts will be made to remove any trace of our name and achievements from the sporting world and the sports community. But why care about those people and their feelings who have never achieved anything. If I have won a medal, that is registered in history. They can’t erase it.

Shivani Naik: Wrestling has a culture of giving respect, of listening to and following everything that people in authority say. Was that culture misused?

When Brij Bhushan was new in wrestling, he used to respect any good and upcoming wrestler. But as he started getting a firm foothold, he began to show his true colours. If a few wrestlers were good friends and training well together, he would send his own people there to break their friendship. He used to practise divide-and-rule policy.

Most wrestlers come from Haryana, Punjab and Maharashtra, and are big on respect. Brij Bhushan has taken undue advantage of that. I would also blame athletes, as we stayed silent for a long time and tolerated a lot. If we had drawn a line earlier, things wouldn’t have come to this. Athletes would have faced difficulty in drawing a line against the system. There is not one Brij Bhushan, but several. How can we fight against so many? But if we can successfully deal with one, that will be a big thing in itself.

Sandeep Dwivedi: Winning an Olympic or World Championship medal takes a lifetime of effort. But no upcoming athlete would know how to counter these other challenges. What will be your message to them?

The tough journey is appreciated only by an athlete and their family. The toughest sports are taken up by those from the lower-income level families, who are used to hardships and difficulties. They think that they don’t have anything and so have no option but to work hard. They don’t have a Plan B. They only know they have to go ahead.

The craze of wrestling and other sports is growing. Especially in Haryana, people sell off their land to fund this dream, to fund a youngster’s training, diet and participation in competitions. To ensure that they stay fit and healthy, parents even stay awake with them. They save money to accompany them to competitions. If they don’t have money, they borrow it thinking they will repay it in a few months. They put everything in it in the hope that if their child becomes a top athlete, they will get everything… money, prestige, social status.

Thinking about all this, we thought what will come out of this struggle, even if we are successful. What will be our future? We knew we would perish regardless of whether we fought or not. But we thought that if we fought and won, we could form something better. But if we didn’t fight, we would have had a regret in life that we didn’t even try.

Sandeep Dwivedi: What gives you the strength to keep going on?

We don’t know from where we are getting the strength. I don’t know if we are actually normal or we are acting to be normal. We have stopped feeling anything. We don’t even know where the path we have chosen will lead us, there are so many obstacles along the way. If we clear one hurdle, something else will come up.

But, yes, if all the athletes come together, if they gather the strength — that we have to fight — then no one can do anything to an athlete. Not just wrestlers, but every sportsperson.

The entire country worships cricket but not a single cricketer has spoken up. We aren’t saying you speak in our favour but at least put out a neutral message and say there should be justice for whichever party. This is what pains me.

Every sports federation has a problem and a lot of athletes are my friends as well. But there should be no pretensions. I go to their matches, they come for mine, we get a photo clicked together, congratulate one another upon winning a medal, put nice messages like ‘onwards and upwards’… Athletes need to get out of the social media bubble and express real-world emotions. They should look beyond their personal gains and ask their conscience… We are human. We will also quit the sport someday. We should leave a legacy outside sports, too.

Sriram Veera: You spoke about lack of support. Some might fear, ‘Oh this is a sensitive issue; how do we know what really happened, how can we get into this?’ What do you have to say to those people?

What do they think, will we do these things just to get exemption from trials or not take part in national championships? We don’t take these allegations lightly. They should have this common sense. If you can’t raise your voice against the system… If this was such a small issue then why would we fight this battle that’ll only lead to lifelong animosity?

Log kehte hai wrestlers ka dimaag ghutno mein hota hai (People say wrestlers are not intelligent). But I’ll say our dil (heart), dimaag (brain), everything is in the right place. Other athletes need to check where their brain is. Dil toh unke paas hai hi nahi (They don’t have a heart).

If we don’t deserve their support in these times of struggle then, god-willing, if we win a medal tomorrow — and we will work very hard for it — then don’t come to congratulate us; don’t say you had faith in our abilities because you didn’t, that’s why you are doubting us now.

Sriram Veera: Can you talk about your courage? Where does it spring from?

It’s my mother. Our relationship is stronger than the bond between friends. We share everything. She was about 32 when she became a widow. I feel sad thinking about it. She struggled for us. In that struggle, we didn’t even realise when we grew up. A single woman, she would be taunted by others, how they treated her. Before my father died, my mother didn’t even step out of the house; she didn’t even know what was the price of tomatoes. Suddenly, tragedy struck.

Then she suffered from cancer, and would go to Rohtak for chemotherapy. Totally illiterate, she didn’t even know where to sit, where to get off. No one supported her. We grew up seeing her struggle. If a single woman like that, illiterate, could fight the society on her own and made us big wrestlers, then we can do it too. If we don’t speak out today, then all the struggles of my mother would have gone to waste. I won medals, that’s all right, but if we win this battle, she will proudly say, ‘I gave birth to them’.

I am proud that my mother showed so much strength and character; I guess that’s in me as well. Even my father was like that. I am also like that. I speak straight and honestly, and say what I feel.

It’s been misunderstood. Some feel, ‘arre yeh toh moofatt hai’ (she’s outspoken), but what can I tell them. I speak my mind. What’s inside is what comes out. Take it or leave it, and go home (laughs).