Mallikarjun Kharge at Idea Exchange: ‘People who want to support Congress are scared. But we aren’t scared, we will fight for truth’

Manoj CG: The recent Parliament session was acrimonious but we also saw a semblance of Opposition unity. How will you take this forward from an electoral point of view?

Everyone should be united, even outside of the Parliament. I have had discussions with two-three leaders. For example, to Bihar Chief Minister Nitish Kumar, I said it is the need of the hour to come together and fight for unity, particularly against the BJP. I spoke to MK Stalin, to Uddhav Thackeray… After this (Parliament) session, we’ll try to reach out to all the leaders. All political parties are united on the issue of protecting democracy and institutions, particularly, the Constitution. The government is misusing its autonomous bodies and suppressing the voice of Opposition parties. The Joint Parliamentary Committee (JPC) matter has also united us, particularly after the disqualification of Rahul Gandhi. We will try to meet everybody, let us see how many people will come… If someone doesn’t agree to join us, we can’t leave the fight. We will try our best to fight together.

How many newspapers boldly write when they (BJP) make mistakes? How many TV channels have people opposing ideas of the BJP? How many people write against them? If they do, they are sent to jail

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Manoj CG: Your party protested within Parliament and is organising satyagrahas across the country against Rahul Gandhi’s disqualification. But is the public with you?

Sympathy is there in people’s hearts. That’s why if you see the editorials of all newspapers, everybody condemned the way in which this issue has been taken and how differently it’s been treated. Gandhi’s disqualification was done at lightning speed but look at Gujarat’s Naranbhai Bhikhabhai Kachhadiya, a BJP MP. He got a three-year sentence, and the Lok Sabha speaker did not take any notice. Gandhi was convicted in the afternoon and immediately, in the evening, they issued the notification of disqualification. After eight to 10 hours, another notice was issued to vacate his official residence. His disqualification was like a surgical strike to shut his mouth and disallow him from coming to Parliament. They got so scared when Gandhi raised the Adani issue that instead of replying to him, they chose this way… When people outside see all this, they will understand the state of democracy in the country.

Vandita Mishra: Don’t you think, you, as a political party, need to do something to frame it (democracy/the Constitution) as an issue that matters to the people?

Rahul Gandhi undertook the Bharat Jodo Yatra and travelled from Kanyakumari to Kashmir. At that time, people were surprised. The critics, especially from the BJP, wondered how can someone who is used to a life of comfort and luxury. He travelled 3,800 km, braving all weather conditions, and met people from all sections of society. He would spend time with people and enquire about their problems. The objective of the Yatra was to save the Constitution and democracy and fight along with people against issues of inflation and unemployment… This fight is long and we will continue it till 2024, in one form or another. We fought in Parliament and will do so outside, too.

Alok Deshpande: Rahul Gandhi’s recent comments on Vinayak Savarkar have cornered Uddhav Thackeray in the state. What is the point of putting your alliance partner in a corner?

There are ideological differences everywhere. I don’t want to bring that into this unity. People can like Jyotiba Phule, Dr BR Ambedkar, Savarkar, Jawaharlal Nehru or Mahatma Gandhi. That’s different. We don’t want to get into the fight of who likes who. We want to fight together for the state’s development. We were working on development but the BJP played a game and removed those who the people had chosen to form a government. They did this in Maharashtra, Madhya Pradesh, Karnataka, Manipur and Goa… No political party had done such a thing in the past.

In democracy, we always want progress and development… Instead, you (the BJP) always focus on destroying democracy and silencing the Opposition… it’s not good for the nation

Shubhajit Roy: You are now the Congress President. The Congress is seen as a family-run party. How much autonomy do you have in the party?

The Gandhi family doesn’t differentiate between party members. It is a rumour created by the BJP. After Rajiv Gandhi, which other Gandhi became a minister, prime minister or deputy chief minister? I come from the grassroots. I have been winning elections for the past 52 years. We converted the party’s Working Committee into the Steering Committee. In the past five-and-half months. since I have become the party’s president, we have brought in a lot of changes. We chose party presidents for Bihar and Jharkhand. We changed secretaries in many places. Is it a crime to take the advice of someone who has been working tirelessly for 25 years for the party? They accuse us of being run by remote control. Tell me, which senior BJP leader is consulted by the party. Where is LK Advani or Murli Manohar Joshi? Sonia Gandhi refused the prime minister’s post and made an economist the PM of the country. Even their (BJP’s) cabinet ministers do not raise their voice. CM Stephen, one of our leaders from Kerala, used to criticise Indira Gandhi a lot. Still, Indira made him the leader of the Opposition after winning the next election. After we lost in Delhi, we gave him a ticket in Gulbarga, made sure he won and became a minister. Veerendra Patil contested against Indira from the Chikmagalur constituency. In one-and-a-half years, she made Patil the minister, then the party president, and later the CM of Karnataka. In the BJP, there’s no space for dissent. There was some space for dissent during Atal Bihari Vajpayee’s time. Today, they are busy bemoaning family politics. The PM asks why is the name not Nehru. Is this a question a PM should ask? Is this their ideology? Talk about important things for the country. Talk about your foreign and economic policies. They keep asking what have we done in 70 years. If we hadn’t done anything in 70 years, there would have been no development.

Vandita Mishra: When issues of misuse of the CBI and ED or centralisation of power are mentioned, we hear people saying that the Congress did it, too. Does the Congress need to accept that they made these mistakes, before criticising the BJP?

They have fought so many elections on that issue. For 25-30 years, they have been saying this… We made mistakes and you pointed it out to people… In democracy, we always want progress and development… Instead, you focus on destroying democracy and silencing the Opposition. If that’s how you want to move ahead, it’s not good for the nation.

Leena Misra: It’s been almost 30 years, when will the Congress come back to power in Gujarat?

We’ll come to power when you vote for us.

Leena Misra: Why are people not voting for you (in Gujarat)?

In my own constituency, I did so much work in Karnataka. I got the Constitution amended to help the state’s seven districts in recruitment, employment, development and education… Work is going on… people of that area have elected me for 52 years. In spite of doing good things, BJP-RSS people target us.

Modi openly said, in 2018, in reply to the President’s speech, that Kharge ji is a senior and we respect him but in the coming election whether he will be sitting there or not, I don’t know. That’s something he said as PM, in the house. This means you target people and no good work is done… You spend money and spread false propaganda… If we speak for justice for a minority that has been attacked, they race there to polarise people… (They are) lying to people and using the RSS and exploiting autonomous bodies by intimidating constructive experts… This is how they scare everyone. How many newspapers boldly write when they make mistakes? How many TV channels have people opposing the ideas of the BJP? How many people write against them? If they do, they are sent to jail. Progressive writers are threatened. When I spoke in Parliament, I got threats from Canada and Gujarat and Dubai. I wrote to the Home Minister and Prime Minister. I registered cases in three places. In Tughlak (Road) police station, in the south, and in Bangalore, too. After all this, the investigation has been stalled for five years. They asked me to hand over my mobile and PA and landline, and then they’ll investigate. Why? You have the whole government, the Intelligence, the police and MLAs, too.

By scaring everyone, Modi has brought fear in this democracy and is running the government like an autocrat. Businessmen are scared, too. People who want to support Congress are also scared. But we aren’t scared, we will fight for truth.

Manoj CG: Karnataka’s election is just one month away. Can factionalism between DK Shivakumar and Siddaramaiah cause a problem? Will it make a difference that you come from that state?

I don’t believe that one person can have an outsized influence. What matters is we go from house to house, door to door, and talk to people. That makes a difference. That’s what we used to do. That is important everywhere, for all our workers. That’s what we’ve told them to work together, to travel together and then send one leader to the north and one to the south, working Assembly-wise. There are some who want to mislead others, but they are both doing good work.

With the 170 seats that we have, we have asked everyone to work together in consensus. Everyone said we’ll do it together. Contractors got together to write to the PM and said that 40 per cent commission is taken from us, how will we do work? Nobody has said it so openly but the contractors’ chairman and the contractors said it openly. They wrote to the PM, Home Minister and Lokayukta. What more proof do you need? Why are they not punishing the culprits?

Sanghi institutions like Bajrang Dal bother innocent people and minorities… This won’t keep the country together, breaking up the country is their intention. If you harm and lynch people for votes, this sends a bad message. Their MPs and ministers support this. The PM stays silent. This is happening before his eyes. Money is exchanging hands, contractors are speaking out, people have been caught red-handed in the sub-inspector recruitment, people are in jail. How can you say everyone was corrupt before, then? This is happening now.

They’re blaming us today but they have so many corrupt people. Those who have been stained in our party, who are investigated by the ED and CBI, join their party after two months… Shah and Modi’s washing machine is big. They put these people through the machine. On one side are these stained people who you slander and slap cases on, on the other side, they have suddenly become clean, pure and blameless…Our people will continue to talk about governance. We will win and bring a good government.

Amrith Lal: Just ahead of Karnataka elections, BJP has introduced the sub-quota politics. How do you think it will impact elections?

They could have done this earlier. What’s the reason? Just to polarise. The same quota was there during (BS) Yediyurappa, Sadananda Gowda and (Jagdish) Shettar’s time. Why only now has the minority sub-quota been removed? To polarise. They’re afraid that everyone is going against them. By removing that sub-quota, they think they can polarise all Hindus, SC, backward communities… Karnataka is a different state. When the entire country voted for Janata Dal, we got elected in 1977, 1978 assembly election, 1983 assembly election, 1984 parliament election. Karnataka, mostly, has been a progressive state of progressive-thinking people. But these people are purposely trying to destabilise us.

Sandeep Singh: In Uttar Pradesh, you have two per cent vote share. Next year, we have the Lok Sabha election. What is your strategy?

Maulshree Seth: Most Congress workers and leaders In UP have lost hope. How do you plan to boost the morale of workers and leaders?

We are trying to reconstitute the body. Priyanka and Rahul Gandhi are there. They are worried about the system there. Now elections are approaching. Definitely we are taking them seriously. We will work on that. We’ll figure out a method for states like UP, Bihar and Maharashtra. These major states are very important from the point of 2024 elections. We’ll try to improve it.

Jatin Anand: How does Congress view Aam Aadmi Party (AAP) as a political opponent and in terms of Opposition unity?

We have come to a certain common programme in the Parliament. We are united on the issues, particularly issues of democracy and the Constitution, and governance and the misuse of LGs. AAP has its own thinking and we have our own…We are trying to make a minimum programme and agree on it, so that we can defeat the BJP first.

Shubhajit Roy: After Ghulam Nabi Azad’s exit from the party, he’s been heavily critical of the Gandhis. Is there a possibility to reach out to him?

I don’t have much contact (with him) after he quit the party. Right now, I don’t want to say much. Because if someone has been working in a party for 50 years and then suddenly (leaves)… Many political leaders, from Periyar to so many others, right at the end, changed their opinions. Periyar’s party was DK (Dravidar Kazhagam), aur jab dahi jama, it became DMK. With MG Ramachandran, the same process happened, and AIADMK was formed. This happens sometimes that in the last stages, thoughts and opinions change. They speak about what they want. They have the freedom to do that. To save that freedom of speech, we are fighting.

Manoj CG: But many young leaders have left after 2014 — Jyotiraditya Scindia, Jitin Prasada, RPN Singh, Sushmita Dev. Last week, Anil Antony left as well.

If someone doesn’t want to fight in the field, when the party is in trouble… ‘The party became weak and so I left’ – saying that is not an ideology. This is just convenience. Many others are committed to our party. They are on the streets. They walked with Rahul ji for 4,000 km. Those who can’t even walk 10 km have left. Those who can walk 4,000 km are with Rahul ji.