Idea Exchange: ‘We’ve failed in communicating achievements to people’

Shaji Vikraman: Maharashtra has been a big beneficiary of the 14th Finance Commission. How are you going to use the extra funds, for debt reduction or asset creation?

It’s true that the 14th Finance Commission increased our devolution to 42 per cent. But this does not mean we are getting a lot of money. It simply means we now have the choice to decide what we wish to do with the funds, for the benefit of our state. The total was raised to 42 per cent, but various schemes have also been de-linked. Now we need to decide whether we want to operate or change these schemes, increase allocations or decrease them for such schemes. The important thing is that while Maharashtra was once serious about capital investments, such investments froze at around Rs 18,000 crore in the past six years, even as the revenue expenditure grew. We are slowly raising this, going up to Rs 24,000 crore last year and Rs 28,000 crore now. If I remain finance minister, we will make Rs 40,000 crore worth of capital investments in the fifth year. The key is to achieve a balance in a way that we make sustainable capital investment, while keeping the revenue expenditure in check. We have asked departments to more judicious with recruitments to rein in expenditure on salaries.

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Shaji Vikraman: This government has come on the promise of zero corruption and maximum governance. But in seven months, everyone including your alliance partner Mr (Uddhav) Thackeray has said you see graft everywhere.

All of this is a conspiracy against our government. First, Vinod Tawde (Education Minister) was accused of having a bogus degree. I have looked up the meaning of both ‘bogus’ and ‘forged’ in the dictionary. If Tawde had gone to a printing press and printed the degree, and the university did not know when he was a student, it would then be a bogus degree. Has Dnyaneshwar University said Tawde was not a student there? The second allegation against him pertains to purchase of fire extinguishers for schools. Now tell me can there be graft allegations when not a single penny has been spent. Moreover, it was the minister (Tawde) himself who insisted that the file be placed before the finance department, and ordered a suo motu probe after the latter raised objections. If someone reads the file thoroughly, they will understand there was nothing wrong with the minister’s intentions.

Even in the case of Pankaja Munde (Women and Child Development Minister), purchasing of items through rate contracts has been going on for years. One must understand the rationale before levelling allegations of haste and graft against someone. The Centre has allocated an additional Re 1 per child towards supplementary nutrition of young children and pregnant mothers covered under the Integrated Child Development Services. Had the contracts not been awarded in time, the money would have lapsed. During such an emergency, when a file is put before you, you can take two decisions, either return the money or take a bold decision. She opted for the latter. As far as I’m concerned, there are no procedural violations in either case. The government is prepared to counter all allegations on the floor of the state legislature.

As for the Shiv Sena, they are our friends and will be our friends. But when the Shiv Sena sometimes says such things, they forget that five of their ministers are a part of the cabinet. They are with us when decisions are taken by the cabinet. I’m yet to come across a dissent note raised by a Shiv Sena minister against any cabinet decision.

Sandeep Ashar: Then what according to you has gone wrong for the government in the last seven months?

We have taken a number of good decisions, but I feel we have failed in effectively communicating these to people. We must reach out to people more aggressively. There is also a need to enhance public participation in governance.

Sandeep Ashar: Whenever the Congress-NCP government faced allegations, the BJP would jump to demand ministers’ resignations based on moral responsibility. How morally different is this government?

I don’t recollect any instance where a corruption charge was levelled and a resignation demanded. We asked for the ruling party’s resignation in situations where there was evidence, or where a committee confirmed the allegations, or where a high court intervened. If we had sought resignations on mere charges, the past government would not have had a single minister left in the cabinet in the early days itself. If the Opposition can prove anything against us, I can understand. In fact our party has a tradition — even Advaniji resigned once. We are prepared to counter all their accusations of the floor of the state legislature.

Kavitha Iyer: On liquor prohibition in Chandrapur and the recent Malwani hooch tragedy, there is a view that if there are more government licensed liquor vendors, the demand for hooch would fall. Also, as the finance minister, how do you view the loss from prohibition? And would there be a similar move in any other district?

In 1971, Wardha was declared a dry district, Gadchiroli in 1991 and Chandrapur in 2015. Gutkha also gave us a lot of revenue, but there was a ban on that too. Besides, where the incident took place in Malwani, was alcohol banned there? There is no ban there. And if you say the shortage of licensed shops promotes hooch sales, this tragedy would have happened in Chandrapur, Gadchiroli, Nagpur and everywhere. As for the impact on state revenue, it is the glass half full or half empty. If we incur a loss of Rs 100 to 200 crore, the poor people in Chandrapur have a saving of Rs 2,500 crore today — money being spent on food, education and families. Liquor worth Rs 2,500 crore was being consumed in a single year. Should we not also look at this fact?

Anjali Lukose: With issues such as Aarey Colony, Karnala, the Trans-Harbour link, there is mounting criticism that your government is finishing off forests in the garb of development. And secondly, the National Tiger Conservation Authority opposed monsoon tourism, but you instructed them to allow it in Tadoba. How do you justify that?

No government can work beyond the directives of the NTCA, Supreme Court or the Centre. What the NTCA said was applicable for everyone, but there were some conditions. This was not the first year that we gave partial approval for Tadoba. We give it every year, because in Tadoba, you can only roam in only eight per cent of the forest area. We did not violate the NTCA’s orders. Secondly, whenever the government grants any land for development, it can only be given under provisions of the Forest Conservation Act. We have also taken a lot of decisions to promote conservation.

Musab Qazi: The chief minister has said beef ban was not a religious decision but an economic one. How has the state and the farmer benefited from it?

An argument against this ban is that farmers owning old animals will commit suicide. But my question is why didn’t anybody kill himself when cow slaughter was banned in 1976? Slaughter of cow progeny is banned in UP too. In fact, Maharashtra is the eighth state to take this decision. What happened to the farmers in these states? The leather industry functioning out of Kanpur, UP, continues to source leather from other animals. They say 20 lakh people were unemployed after the ban. Do you really require 20 lakh people to slaughter 3 lakh bullocks? These days machines are used to slaughter animals. I do not wish to give this a political or religious colour, but Congress leaders had also written letters for a ban on cow progeny slaughter. Motilal Vora, who had worked with Gandhiji, had written too. A 250-page report was submitted in the state legislature, which approved it.

Zeeshan Shaikh: Kumbh Mela kickstarts a few days from now. The government has spent crores of rupees on arrangements, but when you go to Trimbak, the work done is shoddy, and there is filth everywhere. Why are we not able to ensure that high quality work takes place for such a project?

A lot of preparatory work for the Kumbh Mela had been done before our government took over reins. But maintaining hygiene is a prerogative. I will suggest to the chief minister that we (ministers) should go there for a day and oversee everything.

Sandeep Ashar: The Centre has indicated reduced share in irrigation projects under the Accelerated Irrigation Benefit Programme in drought-prone belts. How do you plan to overcome this setback?

I’ll resign as the finance minister if I release a single penny less than the Rs 7,227 crore budgeted for irrigation in 2015-16. Lack of irrigation facilities is a prime cause for farmer suicides in the state. It is a matter of shame that Maharashtra is ranked a lowly 28th among 29 states on irrigation facilities. The big problem is that we have inherited incomplete and corruption-riddled projects and a massive committed liability from the previous regime that was contractor-driven. To start with, we have drawn up a list of last-mile projects and other crucial projects in backlog regions. These will be taken up on priority basis. We are looking at bonds, deferred payments, and banking finance to overcome the resource crunch.

Shubhangi Khapre: The friction between the Shiv Sena and the BJP appears to have become a daily affair. How do you plan to make the coalition last full five years, or do you see a danger of it breaking up prematurely?

I don’t think the coalition will ever break. We have inherited a lot of governance problems from the previous regime, and our sole focus is to overcome these. The Shiv Sena and the BJP will always remain together.

Sandeep Ashar: You have harboured chief ministerial ambitions. Would you like to be the CM of Maharashtra one day?

I’ve never expressed a desire to be a chief minister. No one can ever accuse me of that. I consider myself a grassroot workers, and am content that our government is doing well. The post does not matter; what matters is resolving problems faced by citizens. And the CM has empowered all ministers by delegating powers. So there is no question of my harbouring any chief ministerial aspirations, now or in future.