Najeeb Jung interview: Things have to improve, the law has been laid down

What is the way forward from this impasse between your office and the state government’s, especially after the recent High Court verdict? Or will it go back to what it was like?

It can’t go back to what it was, things have to improve as the law has been laid down by the High Court. I did not go to the HC. It was very clear to my mind that whatever we were doing was as per conventions, rules, transactions of business rules and so on. You went to the HC and it has clarified that what you thought was correct is not correct. They should abide by it.

Any plans to break the ice, or break bread with Arvind Kejriwal?

It is my duty absolutely, that once the Chief Minister is back from his retreat, then I will request him to come here and we will speak about this judgment.

What are the policies of this government that you think are good and working. Mohalla clinics, education?

There are a lot of announcements. Mohalla clinics… I don’t think has taken off in the way it is being spoken of. But I can see extremely positive effort in the field of education. Mr Sisodia has kept up the effort to put in a lot of energy. Now, whether those efforts are absolutely right or wrong, time will prove. But there are efforts there. On the other things, nothing comes to mind, that a substantial radical improvement has taken place.

WATCH VIDEO: Najeeb Jung On Arvind Kejriwal, HC Order And Delhi

Can you recall a good, lucid moment when the two of you chatted and talked about Delhi?

We met a month ago and since then he hasn’t been coming. Before that he would come every two weeks on a particular day, Wednesday or Thursday, and we would talk about various issues that were pending. We’ve never had an unpleasant moment.

Do the firecrackers, the heat and the light, the tweets take you by surprise?

I don’t read tweets so I don’t know what is being tweeted. I am not on Twitter. I don’t know what is said and what is not said and that is perhaps the reason why I sleep so easy.

Two recent issues AAP has been crying foul about is selective targeting of their MLAs for arrests and also the case of the Parliamentary Secretaries being isolated for vindictive treatment.

No, that is not true. There can be no random picking up of anyone, because that person is produced in court and if there is a random picking up, you will be pulled up. They say the person has got bail. Of course they will get bail. It is their right. But there has not been a single case where people have not been sent to custody for a few days at least. So I can’t pick you up and take you in, it doesn’t happen. There is a law of the land. So that is not a correct statement to believe.

As far as the 21 Parliamentary Secretaries go, the law is quite clear. Right now, let me not comment on it as it is with the EC. But the law in Delhi is quite clear. Delhi is entitled to have one Parliamentary Secretary as per the rules. And they have 21. The CM can have a Parliamentary Secretary. Here, the CM does not have one, all of them are attached to others.

But we have had issues with degrees of a Central minister, AAP says that minister is not touched but an AAP MLA is pushed on that count.

Anything that is investigated, and you have proof, action will be taken. So Mr Tomar was picked up as you have evidence. If you don’t have evidence, you don’t pick up. I can’t accuse anybody of being a thief. I have to prove he has robbed someone, the product must be recovered.

The safety of women in Delhi remains a big concern. Nothing has changed much after December 2012… And the government says law and order is not with them. So where does the problem lie?

There is no single point where the problem lies, it is a collage. Let me go back to the beginning… There is a word in Urdu called tarbiyat (upbringing), which is how we bring up the child. I don’t know if schools at the basic level are talking of tarbiyat anymore. They are talking of A B C D and 2+2 etc, engineering and medicine. But we have to talk to young men on how they treat young girls, middle-aged women and old women with respect. Why is it that a young boy won’t stand up in the Metro on seeing a woman? That is the issue of tarbiyat… a background of it.

On gross misbehavior, crimes like molestation and rape, 91% is being committed in the four walls of the home… It is the father, uncle, mama, chacha and there is no one to prevent it. A large section (of rapes), 4-6%, is now happening in very congested areas where people are living cheek by jowl without basic amenities… Many young men are unemployed… So it has become a socio-economic issue. It will have to be dealt with by education, development, creation of jobs. There is another 3-4% happening in homes of people from a more affluent background. It is very easy for society to blame the poor but it is a question of morality.

Which are the Bills proposed by the Delhi government that have been returned?

Five bills came back. One was within my power. It was the Sales Tax (Amendment) Bill that was within the powers of the Lt-Governor. I approved it. Four dealt with enhancing salaries of MLAs, ministers, speaker and leader of opposition. The central government sought some clarifications on it. The file, I think, came back to us in early June. Since then we have sent them three reminders. The state has to get back to us, answering those queries. They had asked a series of questions. They asked how would you justify seeking a four-times enhancement, how does it compare with other states etc. They (Delhi government) just had to answer those questions.

What is the way forward now that the HC has said things very clearly… Are you more relieved or are you edgy about things getting worse?

We were never edgy because we were sure of the constitutional position. We did not go to court. It was Mr Kejriwal who did. The court has very clearly and cogently answered all the issues that he had raised and said that what we were saying is correct and what he was saying, the word used is, illegal.

You went to Arvind Kejriwal’s Iftar party in 2015 but not in 2016. How much has changed within that year?

Nothing has changed. I don’t normally go for Iftars. It just happened that I didn’t go.

The chief minister had written in a letter to you that no matter what you do, the PM will not make you the Vice-President of India. What do you make of that?

I don’t make anything of that. I don’t think about it. Why should I waste my time thinking about it?

Why has the stand-off between your office and the AAP government escalated?

Nothing has escalated from my side. I do what is right. I will do what is laid down in in the Constitution, as per convention or rule. Anything that is correct, we will certainly do. But not anything that is violative of the Constitution or any provision of the Constitution. Governance is by various rules and regulation. There is the GNCTD Act… Suppose there is a case of say tax, then there is the Sales Tax Act, there are cases of encroachment, DDA issues… We look at the law and then allow anything that is justifiable to happen. But anything that is contrary to various laws, then we send it back to the government with the advice to repair it and have it examined by your law department. We are not in the business of stopping anything.

Do you think you are caught in the middle of a political tug-of-war?

Not at all. I am clear in my mind, I sleep very well.

How would you characterise the status of Delhi?

Delhi is a union territory. There are several union territories. Different systems have been adopted for different union territories. Delhi has this system, some people use the word hybrid, that it has an elected assembly. But the constitutional position is absolutely clear. There are reserved subjects – public order, land, police and services which are out of the domain of the elected government. There are transferred subjects like education, health, urban development, water, so on. Here, the CM is fully competent to act, move ahead, administer and govern but when there are policy issues or important issues, he needs the clearance of the Lt-Governor. The Constitution says the council of ministers is there to aid and advise the Lt- Governor but in the case of Delhi, the Lt-Governor has the right to differ from the hon’ble chief minister and that is what will hold. That is the Constitutional position. You cannot equate a Lt-Governor with the Governor of a state. There the council of ministers is supreme. You cannot compare the function of a Lt-Governor with the function of the President of India because the President goes by the advice of the council of ministers. Here, because it is a union territory, which by definition means governed by the union, then the writ of the union will hold. I am a delegatee of the union.

Capital cities across the world work on different models. Which model do you think would be good for Delhi?

This question has been debated right from the days of the Constituent Assembly. The Constituent Assembly that framed the Constitution, delved deep into the subject whether Delhi should become a state or continue as a union territory. That goes back to the debate in 1947. In 1951, they concluded and said Delhi will continue to be a union territory. This debate continued. In 1989, when there was further debate, a committee was set up under Mr Balakrishnan. He traversed the whole world looking at various state capitals. There was a major debate in Parliament and the conclusion was that given the status of Delhi as the capital and given the missions here, given the seat of power here, given the Parliament here so on and so forth, it should continue under the union. It is not for me to comment if this is a perfect model or an imperfect model. These are much better minds than mine that have been applied.

We have a former, very powerful chief minister who is the Prime Minister. We have powerful, cantankerous, very driven CMs in the country too. How do you explain this?

I think the PM is making all out efforts to strengthen the federal structure. That is why he called this meeting of the state council after a gap of 10 years. I remember the time of one year of President’s rule and then this government came in. I can remember of no case of where they are trying to usurp. The Constitution is extremely clear, the schedules are clear, there is a state list, a Centre list. I am unaware if there is encroachment of that. But there is politics so I don’t know.

GST impact?

I am not sure, I haven’t studied that aspect, but I think the government has supported the GST.

You are an old resident of Delhi, for many generations.What is the one thing you think needs to change in this city in 2016?

One thing I shouldn’t or wouldn’t point out, but I should, is that I think we need a cleaner city, we need a safer city. We need to change the mindset of young males in their attitude towards girls and women and we need a finer definition of our own culture. The very good thing about Delhi is that it is a secular city, the very good thing is that we don’t have caste issues here, so that’s something we should pat ourselves on the back for. But the other things I have named, I think we can improve on those.

Delhi is a huge magnet for almost anyone from rural India who wants a better life or is distressed at home. Can Delhi continue to support the huge numbers added each year?

It will be a struggle and we are bound to struggle… They are Indian citizens. Every and any citizen of India is entitled to come and live where he feels like. They come here because they feel that Delhi is a city of dreams, much like Mumbai was.. and is. Therefore, it is incumbent on us to provide them with livelihood, to provide them with safety and clean living conditions. They come with young children, so we have to come up with decent schooling provisions for them. We must ensure they get clean health arrangements, so that is the big challenge. So how we will come up to that and when we will come up to that is long-term planning. But if you were to ask me that large numbers are coming, then yes. If you were to ask me, what are the remedies for them then I would say we are searching for them. But it is a city of hopes, you can get a job here, your child can still go to school here and therefore we are much better than a lot of mofussil towns so people will keep coming.

The Delhi Commission of Women has been crying foul about the disbandment of the special task force.

There is no disbanding of the task-force. It was in the Home ministry, but now the Home Ministry has said the task-force must be under the LG. There are 3-4 committees looking at these issues. One is headed by the Chief Secretary and that meets often, it has the secretary of welfare, women and child development, women NGOs. We have appointed a special commissioner of police to look after women’s issues, so that meeting will be attended by the woman special CP… there are law and order people looking after these matters. So it’s not as if there is a lack of review on these matters, it’s not as if there is a lack of effort in these matters. But have we succeeded on these matters? No, we haven’t.