Express Adda with Kapil Sibal: ‘No institution is doing what it should under the Constitution’

When asked about issues that have crippled the government in Delhi,Kapil Sibal shifted the blame to the nature of the polity,the complexity of the nation and

institutions in the country. You want to take them on board but they dont come on board,polity is fractured,there is no meeting ground, said Sibal,adding that other than the three Ds debate,discussion and decision the opposition has adopted a fourth D disruption. Even on issues such as education,where everyone is together,the Parliament is not able to pass simple bills. So,the answer is,Its (the problem) not with the government,it is the nature of our polity,the way in which we run our institutions and the lack of principles on the basis of which the nation has to move forward, he said.

On CAG and the courts

Sibal took on Vinod Rai,days after the latter completed his term as the CAG. He said that the reasons given by the outgoing CAG as the basis of a loss of Rs 1.76 lakh crore to the state exchequer due to spectrum allocation was flawed.

Sibal also took a swipe at the judiciary claiming that the courts do not know the governments functioning and cannot get involved in policy making. Stating that those who are assigned to do the job must be left to do it,he said that,under the Constitution,the government is assigned to delineate the economic policy and it should be left to do that. The courts are required to strike down things if these are unconstitutional and they should do that and weed out any corruption they find. No institution is doing what it is supposed to do under the Constitution. The executive is not responding in the appropriate manner,the legislature is not functioning and the courts are going beyond their jurisdiction. In this situation,how does the country move forward? he asked.

Taking on the media

Sibal was critical of 24/7 news channels. He claimed that he rarely watches news channels and seldom appears on TV shows. He also raised concern over the

perception that electronic media builds up among

people and the judiciary. When somebody gives a figure of Rs 1.76 lakh crore and the electronic media talks about it 24/7 for months,then public discourse gets vitiated. Courts,too,believe that something dreadful has happened and take it up. The atmosphere created makes the courts some times do things in context of

the massive outrage expressed on television channels and that is a very worrisome thing, he said.

being both,a poet and A politician

Sibal recited some of his poems including the one he had written on the Delhi gang rape in December. He told the audience that he had inherited poetry and his house has always been full of poems by Mohd Iqbal,Mirza Ghalib and others. Filmmaker and music composer Vishal Bhardwaj and filmmaker-lyricist Gulzar pointed out that Sibal appeared to be pained at the state of the country but was constrained even though in power. The minister answered that changing the lives of 1.2 billion people would not take five or 10 years,but 30 years. He said change will come,we will become a great country and give the people the rights they deserve.

He added that,on the one hand,there is a poet who feels and,on the other,there is a politician who wants to do something to make a difference. Our job out there is to decide; if I do it with a clean heart,30 per cent of my decisions may be wrong. Fine,I am fallible,mortal,but at least,I must feel for my people and decide for my people and those are my obligations, he said.

On the Opposition

Sibal highlighted the problems of working with a non-co-operative Opposition. Drawing parallels with a company,Sibal said that one can provide the required leadership,treat the opposition as family and make them understand ones vision. But that is very difficult in politics as your vision is not in sync with that of the Opposition.You cant treat them as family because they treat you as an enemy,you can hear their views but many of their views are only because they are in Opposition, he said. This is not a river that runs down together. These are streams that enter into the ocean and you dont know which stream is doing what and you have a confluence where there is no commonality of interests because the only desire is to come to power in 2014, he added. When Shekhar Gupta interjected,Or,if I may put it the other way to stay on in power in 2014. Sibal responded,Come to power also means to stay on in power. We also want to come to power.

On the need for quality education

Having seen the situation of education closely as human resources development minister in the past,Sibal said that huge investments are needed in the field of education. While 220 million children go to school in India,the number of children going to university in the age group of 18-24 was 12.4 per cent while the global average stood at 28 per cent and more than 40 per cent in developed economies. He pointed out that if the children dont get the education,health and skills they need,we will become a nation where people will be roaming the streets and there will be no jobs.

On legalising betting

On the subject,Sibal said,Is the nation ready to accept it? Is it willing to legalise it? I dont know. The states will decide that. If you ask me,in principle,Yes,but is the country ready for it? But,on fixing we will make a law.

Question hour

Everyone knows that gambling is rampant in cricket. Why is the government not thinking of generating revenue from this? With proper laws,you can generate revenue worth Rs 10,000 cr?

Betting and gambling,and fixing a match are two entirely different contexts. Betting and gamblings jurisdiction is entirely with the state government. State governments have a right to pass a law on this and they should if the legislature so desires,but we in the Government of India cant pass it as a law. We dont have the jurisdiction to do so. A lot of things that happen in the country are not related to making money; there is an ethos,there is a lakshmanrekha that we havent crossed.

People look upon leaders to set an example; thats why Nehru,Gandhi and Patel are part of our legacy. What is your view on the current decline in morality at the top?

You can apply the principles of the freedom movement to the country today. I dont think there can be a Mahatma Gandhi in the 21st century in India; there was one then because the situation demanded it. Take the nature of the electorate in this country. There are people who come to me and ask for their childs admission into some school,to regularise their unauthorised construction and so on. Where do you start? You are right that leaders should set an example but with 1.2 billion people,of which 600 million people live in penury,what do you expect? You will find these bad pennies anywhere in any political system because those who have are greedy. The needy would do anything to get basic necessities,and I dont call that corruption. Corruption is when those who have,want more and change the rules of the game to get more.

When Manmohan Singh took over,it was like a whiff of fresh air,with people thinking that there could be no better person to lead. Does it now bother you that the worst dent to Brand India has happened under him?

This decline started in October 2010. If you keep hearing in the media that we are corrupt,we cannot perform,it sends a message that this nation is up to nothing. However,what is the reality on the ground? We achieved a historic agriculture production of 260 million tonnes,agricultural credit of Rs 4.50 lakh crore,the economy grew at an average of 8 per cent,consumption in the rural sector has grown at an average of 3.5 per cent. If you take any sector,it has progressed under Dr Manmohan Singh. But what do you get to hear Rs 1.76 lakh crore scam,Rs 2.50 lakh crore scam. Every day,the media shows that the country is full of scams. Negative news sells. This is not to say that we could not have done better.

There is a perception that there has been a decline in moral values of India over the last few decades in politics,business,sports and so on. What can India do in the fields of law and technology to arrest this decline?

If you look anywhere in the world today,corruption is on an increase. The global economy is getting more and more liberalised and the private sector has no qualms. We must move towards a technology-driven society. All our public services must be available on the Net and we are doing that. If you remove the intermediaries from the system and directly connect the consumer,by and large,you will eliminate corruption. The law can be a deterrent,but not a solution. After the law on rape was passed,I think more rape cases are being heard,which means there is something wrong in the level of development of society. Its the mindset of men in this country.

(After Kapil Sibal recited a poem asking God for powers) A lot of people will say that if this man,who is in power,is himself asking for help from God,who should we approach? Is there a dichotomy?

There is no dichotomy. You want to change things in your industry,but how much have you been able to change? You are a revolutionary and yet you have not been able to change things in your industry. That does not mean you are not a great or radical poet. It all depends on the nature of the power; you should exercise your power with honesty and with the intent to change.

I also think that you must reflect on what is within you,only then will people come to know what the problems are.