How much has the caste situation changed since 1972, when you entered politics with the Dalit Panthers?The basic issues have not changed, the way they are articulated has changed. Politics is no longer articulated in emotional terms. Say like the struggle over renaming the Marathwada University in the ’70s may not be visible, but unemployment, land issues, the oppressive nature of the power structure, all of them still remain.Again, visible caste oppression may not be seen in the metros, but social thinking on caste issues has not changed much. Look at the reactions that came up on the reservation issue. The caste elite still say the oppressed sections are getting benefits because of the Government’s benevolence; they (the Dalits) have no skills, talent. Mainstream political parties are still dominated by upper caste politics. They rarely think of an egalitarian society. But after the Mandal Commission, there is a new consciousness among the OBCs and Dalits over rights.Why do you think the Dalit Panthers failed as a political movement?When I came into politics, the Left was mainstream. It is no longer.I was a Praja Socialist Party worker in my younger days. The Dalit Panthers idea was broad-based. The splits in the Republican Party of India over who to align with — the socialists or the communists - after the Samyukta Maharashtra movement was also a reason. Later, I was accused of being a Marxist.Your critics say you have sold out to Bal Thackeray.Once the Sena was the instrument of the Congress. The Congress used it to oppress the working classes. Now the Sena is another strong mainstream political party. Other Backward Castes, Dalits other than Mahars, the middle classes, workers all are with the Sena. I thought to attack casteism, I could align with the Sena. Now I think they are not interested in that. I am looking for a new direction.About me selling out, they have no problem about Kanshi Ram and Mayawati doing anything for power. I am the fall guy.You say the Dalit situation is still the same. Do you think a single Dalit party can be effective in changing the situation?To destroy caste, struggle by one caste group alone is not enough. There should be an alliance of all similar-minded people, including those from the upper castes. None of these leaders who lay claim to the legacy of Ambedkar’s politics has any clue of what Ambedkar’s vision was. They are just selfish. And they are so sectarian that they don’t allow allow internal democracy within their parties.
