‘I’m not happy with my ministers at the Centre, each is like Alice in Wonderland’

Given the dismal performance of the Shiv Sena ministers in the Union Cabinet, isn’t your hold on Central affairs diminishing?

My ministers do not have any scope. Power is one thing, a portfolio another. Suresh Prabhu thinks he is doing the best. He claims that whatever he is doing today, you will see miraculous development and progress after 10 years.

Till then, what? I told him to think of the remaining two years. Are you going to continue, will this BJP government continue?

Just to have a vision is not enough. We see visions in dreams too. This vision is meaningless. All of them (his ministers) live in wonderland like Alices. They are the Alices in politics.

Do you think the performance of your ministers is being eclipsed by their portfolios?

That’s a lame excuse. An eclipse is not there for a long time, it goes. Your own brightness counts.

Are you disappointed with your ministers at the Centre?

Yes, to some extent. Let’s say I am not happy with them. They do not give me any satisfaction. Each has his own funny ideas. One wants to maintain his image. After Rajiv Gandhi he wants to be known as Mr Clean. Another man says ‘‘no scope’’. Isn’t it a joke?

Will you recall the non-performing ministers?

Who is there to replace? It is extremely difficult to find good candidates in this so-called democratic process. So I have to continue like this.

The Sena selects industrialists as its candidates for Parliament, yet it vehemently opposes disinvestment. Isn’t this hypocrisy?

I do not understand the difference between disinvestment and Swadeshi. Why don’t they just disinvest the Government, let foreigners come and rule? Maybe they will do a better job. When you have to disinvest, why don’t you ask the Tatas or others to take it over?

One journalist-turned-BJP minister came to talk to me about disinvestment. I told him to talk to me as a journalist. The same establishment he wrote against as a journalist, he is now trying to praise.

Four independent MLAs who voted in favour of the SS-BJP combine in the trust vote against the Deshmukh government on June 13 went along with him to meet Sonia Gandhi.

Yes, they came back and met Narayan Rane immediately after that. They have said they will continue to support us. At the Matoshree Club they ate the best food and drank the best wine. How can you trust these people?

Where does the Sena stand today? Hasn’t it lost credibility?

People are greedy for power. I have no secrets. If we do not have the required numbers, why go in for all this? The SS-BJP doesn’t have the required number even for the vacant Rajya Sabha seat, so I don’t think we should contest it. It will be a contest between both the Congress parties.

I have told the BJP very clearly that the Sena will never tie up with Sharad Pawar. I have criticised Pawar very vehemently in campaigns, how can I side with him? The people will never accept it if the Sena went with Pawar.

It is perceived that the BJP wasn’t keen on toppling the Vilasrao Deshmukh Government because of its relationship with Sharad Pawar. It went along to save the NDA at the Centre. Can you trust the BJP now?

Yes… maybe. They mooted the idea of three together (BJP, Sena and NCP) for a strong government. I did not go along. How long will such a government last?

How can I tell you openly if I trust the BJP? But, if it comes to that, the Sena is prepared to fight along.

Can Narayan Rane’s political acumen be trusted after the toppling game fell flat on the Sena’s face?

What acumen? (pauses) He did a lot in the six months he was chief minister. Manohar Joshi was chief minister for almost four years, what did he do? This proves that Rane is the man.

What is the direction the Sena will take in Maharashtra now?

Unless you have a thumping majority you cannot do anything. The Sena started getting justice after we came to power. We are at the Centre, the state remains.

In the four-and-a-half years when we were in power, we concentrated on infrastructure building. The Congress enjoyed the power and their greed for money.

Was Dr P.C. Alexander’s resignation a shock to you?

Alexander was the most suitable candidate. We have lost a good President. He resigned because there was something on his mind. I really love that man, he’s a thorough gentleman, impartial, straightforward, knowledgeable with a very good image.

He is an efficient administrator and his resignation is a great loss. His skills could have been utilised in a more effective way. But who is to blame for all this?

Narayanan wanted a second term. He had suffered a stroke, he couldn’t even stand. What kind of aspirations are these?

Shouldn’t old and incapable politicians move out of Indian politics?

Certainly. There is a need for politicians to set a date for their retirement. When you are asking a government servant to retire at the age of 58, what about ministers?

Moraraji became Prime Minister at the age of 80. I cannot understand this mentality to continue when they are incapable of doing so. There must be a law which will lay down the date for ministers to retire. Lakshmi Sehgal is so old, she has to be assisted at every step. Why does she want to contest?

Don’t you think this ‘incapability’ factor has got the country a deputy Prime Minister?

Silence. Smiles.

The Shiv Sena is an important constituent in the NDA Government, yet Chandrababu Naidu has a bigger say in the matters of state.

The numbers are working in his favour. Jiska MPs jyada uska aawaz jyada. The Government is scared of being in a minority. This makes it difficult to manage the show.

You too expressed your support for the LTTE. Will the action against Vaiko by Jayalalithaa set a wrong precedent?

Yes, it has set a wrong precedent. I supported the LTTE long ago and I have my reasons. But the action against Vaiko is absolutely vindictive and obnoxious.