‘If I were a fox in public life, I would have survived a full term of five years as PM’

•SHEKHAR GUPTA: Is Mrs Gandhi is a tough negotiator?

I was not in a position to dictate terms because I belonged to a regional party. I was prepared to go for polls. But our MLAs were not ready. They said they had no resources. So we took a decision to support Dharam Singh for chief minister and Siddramaiah would be deputy chief minister.

Then the rumours started that Dharam Singh was a puppet chief minister, that he was in my pocket. The Congress should feel ashamed of such rumours. Meanwhile, Dharam Singh was trying to strengthen his base and prove he could form a government on his own.

•SHEKHAR GUPTA: Was that your problem with the Congress?

In 2004 nobody recognised JD (S) as a force in Karnataka. After the election results, everyone knew JD (S) was still a force. But neither BJP nor Congress want to accept this.

•COOMI KAPOOR: You have two public images, that of the wily old fox, and the other of a humble farmer. Which one is true?

You may add to those: an old leader or a stalwart who is a father figure to this Indian state. If I were a fox in public life, I would have survived a full term of five years as prime minister. However, I have not had a very good relationship with the media, which projects me in poor light. I am a blunt fellow, and maybe that’s the reason. I remember that, when I resigned from Mr Hegde’s government, he asked me why I wanted to resign. I told him there was no need to discuss past events. Then he said to me, “Mr Deve Gowda, you must know your weakness: you not only tell the truth, but the naked truth. That is going to harm your career. You must change your attitude.” I said I couldn’t and that stage was over. I say what I think is right or wrong. I can’t help it if it hurts people. But my image has been consistently tarnished — it is said I am anti-development, I am a hindrance to the progress of Karnataka. For six years, between 2002-2008, such a picture of me was painted by the media. But I am a fighter and am not afraid of these things.

•COOMI KAPOOR: Do you feel that throughout your career, the national media made an effort pull you down, treat you as an outsider on the political stage of Delhi?

I don’t want to pass such sweeping statements. But I must accept that I have failed to cultivate the media at the national level. I tried but I lacked the experience, with only a state-level political career of 40 years behind me before I came to the Centre. To cultivate the national media was a new assignment for me. The media was not against me; it was just my misfortune.

•SHEKHAR GUPTA: Can you tell us why you fought with Narayana Murthy of Infosys?

Narayana Murthy has brought name and fame to the IT sector in my home state. But we have a comprehensive Land Reforms Bill, which states that not an inch of land can be given for a non-agricultural purposes unless you amend the Bill to make provisions for industrial purposes. That’s why my officers were unable to clear his requests. Then I introduced an amendment. I earmarked a certain portion of land for the IT industry, including for Narayana Murthy. But I did say that in any project submitted to the government, either by domestic or foreign investors, the project, the nature of the project, its employment potential, all these aspects have to be assessed by a team of officers headed by the chief secretary before the cabinet will clear it. That is the system I had adopted. Narayana Murthy had applied for approximately 2,000 acres in different parts of the state. There are 1,600 IT companies in Bangalore and even a company like Wipro, a stalwart of the IT sector, had not taken more than 50 acres. I wanted to know why Murthy wanted over 2,000 acres. There is no personal enmity, but this was poor people’s land and they received meagre compensation for their land.

•VANDITA MISHRA: You have spoken about the decline of Parliament. One of the reasons for this is the feeling that regional parties are unwilling, or unable, to take a national view and responsibility. As a former prime minister and one who presides over a regional party, what is your view?

Problems were created by single-party rule for 36 years. We have seen how each state suffered on account of discrimination and step-motherly treatment. Now we need to ask: why is it the party that claims to have brought Independence and has a history of 130 years has lost its base? Why have the people lost confidence in this party that brought them Independence? How have regional parties gained ground?

This much is clear: you cannot bring back one-party rule — that stage is over in this country, be it for the Congress or the BJP. While addressing the Telangana agitators recently, the BJP’s prime minister designate, L.K. Advani, said his party was searching for major regional partners. So times have changed.

As for regional parties not taking a national view, I ran a coalition government for 13 months. Was there any regional conflict during my period? Were there any communal tensions? Did I not solve vexatious issues such as the sharing of the Ganga waters?

•VARGHESE K. GEORGE: A great deal has been written about your belief in astrology. Can you share some of your thoughts on that subject?

My father got my astrological chart written up 74 years ago. This was because my father’s first wife and his three children died in one week. I was his first son from his second wife and he was worried about my life. People suggested he consult a local astrologer and he was the one to write my birth chart.

•VARGHESE K. GEORGE: Did the chart mention the possibility of your becoming prime minister one day?

No one can predict something like that. They may say that a person will get a political opportunity or some such thing.

•RAVISH TIWARI: Who first suggested that you become prime minister?

When Vajpayeeji demitted office after 13 days, all the non-Congress and non-BJP chief ministers were invited to Delhi. I was one of them. On television I was asked what, if any, role would I play in Delhi. I replied, “I am not going to cross the boundaries of Karnataka.” We assembled in Delhi and took a unanimous decision to make V.P. Singh the prime minister but he declined. Then we prevailed upon Jyoti Basu; he accepted, and we thought the matter was settled. The next day, he told us that the CPM Politburo was divided over the issue and he could not split the party at this late stage of his life. We tried to persuade him. The meeting was adjourned, and when we reassembled, Jyoti Basu suggested my name. I folded my hands, I cried, I told him you have 18 years’ experience and I have only 18 months, I have not even travelled through the entire country. That evening, I went home and told my wife. As for me, I went to sleep.

•SHEKHAR GUPTA: Not many politicians have your capacity to fall asleep. Even when you had to take a big decision of being the prime minister, you went to sleep . . .

I never used to sleep. But you must appreciate that I work 18-20 hours a day. When there is a bright light, my eyes itch because I am a diabetic. So I just close my eyes. And the cameras are very sharp to catch me at that time.

Transcribed by Geeta Gupta