‘I won’t compromise just for votes. Reforms may hurt at start but in the long run, they help people’

Its very name is Gur-gaon.

Guru-gaon, the village of sage Dronacharya. The world has imbibed a lot from this place, that is why we specially chose it, developed and beautified it and promoted it as a business centre…so that villagers can avail of employment opportunities. We first beautified our cities, don’t look at Gurgaon alone, take any of our other cities…

But do you think this reduces the urban-rural disparity?

Yes, it does. The villager feels a sense of belonging towards the city and the urbanite feels a sense of partnership with his rural counterpart. We have beautified our cities, constructed dividers on roads, installed streetlights, moved transport, dairy, sewer to the outskirts…

Maybe you can do something about Delhi too.

If (laughs), like (Punjab Chief Minister) Amarinder Singh, I also get a resolution passed making Delhi a part of Haryana, then I will definitely keep this in mind!

That’s a good lesson you are learning from your neighbour!

One must learn from one’s neighbour and teach him as well, that is part of our culture. We want to have amiable relations with our neighbours, direct them to the right path, we are even ready to emulate them. We want to convey to them that in keeping with the tradition of our country, we should promote a sense of fraternity and brotherhood.

What you said earlier is very intriguing and significant. A battle-scarred politician like you who has been defeated and risen again, who is from the Hindi heartland and has roots in kisan politics, when he embraces economic reform and modernisation, it is quite significant. But many of your detractors claim that having lost in the recent elections, you will change your tune.

It is true that the election results have forced us to take stock of the situation, but I am not about to change. The vision that I have continues to be implemented as before. We have suffered because of our drive to clean up cities, because we demolished illegal constructions and evicted illegal occupants. You need space to widen roads, you need to take unpleasant decisions. That is why some people are unhappy.

Yes, because people in India believe encroachment is their right.

Yes. So, because of my drive to clear encroachments, it is natural that certain people will be angry and not vote for us. But we have also provided a lot of modern facilities, we have provided sufficient irrigation facilities for the farmer, increased power generation. It is obvious that revenue has to be generated to pay for this. We gave relief in some areas but applied VAT also, money had to be mopped up from somewhere.

In fact, yours was the only state that has implemented VAT while other states and even the Centre have shied away. VAT is also a reform, and one should not be afraid of implementing economic reform.

No, one should not be. I am not willing to compromise just for votes. It may be inconvenient in the beginning but I firmly believe that in the long run, it is going to benefit the people. The mindset will change and gradually misconceptions about economic reform will clear…We have stuck to this stand. Earlier people believed this is a party dedicated only to villages. We have tried to correct that impression.

It was even referred to as the ‘Laathi Dal’.

Not only ‘laathi-dal’, it was also known as ganwaron ki party (a party of rustics).

People would say you won’t ‘jetset’ Haryana, instead ‘Jat-set’ it.

It is true that the backbone of our economy is agriculture. So we promoted the interests of farmers, took steps to increase the yield, gave them remunerative prices for their crop. But we also promoted industrial growth, encouraged trade. We provided many facilities for traders and didn’t just impose VAT.

I believe VAT has really buoyed your tax collections.

It is true that we have reaped benefits from VAT. Take Punjab. Its annual sales tax collection is to the tune of Rs 2,800-2,900 crore whereas we, being a much smaller state, have a turnover of around Rs 3,800 crore. And they have one more advantage—our paddy and wheat harvest gets us Rs 200 crore whereas Punjab gets around Rs 600 crore. That is natural because our production is one-third of theirs. They have other advantages too. They are industrially more advanced, richer in water, natural resources, and in spite of all this, we have tried to provide facilities to people and to curb theft, because of which we became unpopular.

But you have no regrets?

No, I don’t.

There are other chief ministers, like Jayalalithaa, who took steps like yours but rolled these back as soon as she lost the election.

You can see that there has been no change in my thinking. I am continuing development along the same lines. I did not go back on VAT either, in spite of it being made an issue in the elections.

Even former finance minister Jaswant Singh retracted from his stand on VAT, while the Rajasthan government lost election in spite of removing it.

The Rajasthan government actually said that whoever defies VAT would be jailed for six months, but even then they went back on their word. We stuck to our stand on VAT because it is beneficial for the consumer as well as the producer.

So before other states implement VAT next year, they should come and do a study of Haryana.

I am happy that even Finance Minister Chidambaram praised us at a meeting of finance ministers, and categorically stated in Parliament that other states should visit Haryana and that he himself would do so.

The recent Lok Sabha election result is being called a victory of the common man and a defeat of the ruling five-star government. Immediately after that, first Andhra, then Tamil Nadu and now Maharashtra have started giving free power to farmers. However, despite your roots in kisan politics, you have not promised any such thing.

We are in favour of providing facilities to the people, but we know that we can’t sustain anything like free electricity doles. Whatever is provided free of cost is naturally misused, and this will not only harm the state but also lead to unreasonable expectations on the part of the people. It will spoil habits.

Could you give me an example of a facility provided free of cost being misused by the people?

Punjab is an example. The government of Parkash Singh Badal began providing water and electricity free of cost and we saw that people began setting up small industries on tubewells. There was unnecessary wastage of water, electricity. Excess use of water led to waterlogging and the state had to face massive losses.

Did you ever talk to Badal about this? You are very friendly with him.

When he gave his first statement regarding this, I did warn him that it would prove unsustainable. ‘You can provide these services at cheaper rates, since you are a well-wisher of the farmer, but if you provide it free, it will be unsustainable’.

What did he say?

He was also facing a problem since this was a promise he had made during the elections…

How many days after taking over did he realise his mistake?

He understood very soon that he had committed a blunder. I still marvel at him for getting by for five years. The loss that he should have faced is now coming back to haunt the Congress government. They are close to bankruptcy, World Bank aid has stopped coming, development work stopped, tax collection slipped.

It is a fact that whatever we are given for free, we inevitably misuse.

Yes…when we stay in a hotel, we misuse the facilities provided simply because we think they come for free. We don’t switch off lights, leave the tap running while we shave…

You don’t want your farmer to get used to freebies.

No, my farmer is very clear about this, he wants power but not free. Because he realises that it will not be possible to provide free electricity and he will lose his crop…Free power will mean erratic supply and that will harm industrial development.

Apart from the malls, which you said you stepped into for the first time today for this interview, you have also made a beautiful golf course in Haryana. This state, isn’t it the land of gulli-danda?

I have built it for foreign industrialists. For the Japanese industrialist, there isn’t this golf course alone. There are Japanese restaurants, hostels, pagodas. I have provided all these benefits. They were very impressed, which is why Haryana is so developed industrially.

You have a lot of Japanese industry here, Suzuki, Honda etc.

In fact, 80 per cent of Japanese investment in India is in Haryana.

We spoke of electricity, water is another important issue. Take the recent controversy between Punjab and Haryana, where Punjab has passed a Bill to avoid building its share of the SYL canal. Is a people-to-people war about to begin?

That is not our thinking. We want to have friendly relations… There is a difference between his thinking and ours. We want to have cordial relations with Pakistan, China and Afghanistan as well. Good relations with neighbours reduce worries. If the neighbour is prosperous, he causes less problems. But Amarinder is a former king and hasn’t been able to adjust to the democratic set-up. He still speaks the language of rajas and maharajas.

If you were the Chief Minister of Punjab, what would you have done? Because there is pressure from the public of Punjab as well.

Just like an elder brother gives a bigger share to the younger one, I would have given him a larger share. I would not have snatched the younger one’s share.

Do you feel there is still room to solve the problem by dialogue?

Problems are always solved through dialogue. My father tried everything, it’s only when all failed that he approached the Supreme Court. After fighting the case for 21 years, I am grateful that the apex court has given us justice.

Now what is the way out? Is it courts or is a dialogue still possible?

No, now it is not our fight. Our fight is not against Amarinder Singh, we have no issues with anyone. The Congress, in its ignorance, asks us why we didn’t go to court. But the court has already given the verdict in our favour. Now some people are trying to dishonour the judgment. The court will definitely uphold it.

Do you believe that the Centre was not aware of Amarinder’s plans, or that it was a part of them and deliberately did nothing?

No, Amarinder Singh has done this with the knowledge of the Central Government. I had pointed out to the Prime Minister that such a situation can lead to the disintegration of the country. I told him that I am your well-wisher and have a lot of hope from you. I sincerely believe our Prime Minister is a man with a vision. He is not a politician but an economist, a kind, honest and understanding man. He truly wants the country to progress and we want the country to prosper under his leadership. That is why I asked him to curb such divisive tendencies, or the country will disintegrate and tomorrow a historian may write that the country disintegrated because of a weak Prime Minister.

What did he say?

He said it was not like that. I said, ‘You should do it’ (take action against Amarinder).

But you do feel the Congress leadership knew about this?

Yes. Tell me, a chief minister who has to wait at Sonia’s doorstep for three days to even appoint a parliamentary secretary or to camp out in Delhi for weeks to change a portfolio, how could he take such an important decision without Sonia’s consent? It is impossible.

But why did Sonia let him do it?

Because of ignorance. What does she know about the customs and culture of this country? TI keep saying this, and she gets angry. If there had been another person in her place, this wouldn’t have happened.

But where do customs and culture come into this? Isn’t he a Chief Minister like all others? He is not royalty for her to listen to him.

It is not Sonia’s fault. She has seen the rule of kings. People in Europe still respect their king. She thinks he is a raja and agreed to his wrong suggestions.

So Amarinder couldn’t have acted without her knowledge.

No, that is not possible. That is why all Congressmen are speaking the same language now. They have even started saying that Amarinder’s decision is correct.

But don’t you stand to gain from this in the elections in Haryana?

I do not believe in election politics. If there is no country, where are we? Where will election and governance be? Our priority is that the country stay united, the country comes first…If Bills like this continue to be passed, the federal structure of the country will disintegrate. Amarinder Singh is free to promote the welfare of his people but not at the cost of the country. That’s why I have always maintained that like minerals and mines, rivers should also be nationalised.

People will say that Haryana has no rivers and that’s why it is pressing for their nationalisation.

We are part of the nation just like Rajasthan and Gujarat.

Talking of the country, lets get back to the issue of elections. There’s talk now of spending more on farming, education. Do you feel that in a progressive state like Haryana, which was never poor, is there a limitation to how far agriculture can take the state?

I feel that when a family grows, land shrinks. When this happens, how will you make ends meet? That’s why I support giving farmers modern techniques which raise productivity. We want them to grow crops which are more remunerative. I’ve learnt from China and decided to grow medicinal plants. If you get a chance to visit a place in Yamunanagar, there is a 185-acre park where there are 350 types of herbs. People from all over come to visit it, even foreigners.

But the Chinese have left us far behind, so have the Thais, Koreans.

They have developed the textile sector, by which people got employment. Over here, even the bigger industries do not employ as many people as their garment sector.

Here the common man wants to be a government servant.

We have to change this mindset. There aren’t enough job opportunities in the Government to guarantee employment to everyone. I believe in this, I sincerely hope the Prime Minister will agree, and when I get an opportunity to meet him, I will talk to him about controlling population growth, dealing with unemployment, inculcating national pride. This is the responsibility of the Prime Minister of the day. This will happen only with a good PM.

And it will happen with development which is pro-common man.

It will only be possible then.

A personal question. You take a lot of interest in the polio immunisation drive.

I am a polio patient myself and I want new generation to be free of it.

Do you feel people need to be more sensitised to the rights of handicapped or disabled citizens? They can take a lead from your example—you have led an absolutely normal life. In fact, you can easily better some healthy people!

I believe people should lead a healthy and disciplined life that benefits both them and the country.