‘Delhi has the best of both worlds — hyper-modern and the traditional’: Swedish Ambassador Jan Thesleff

He had diplomatic postings in Brussels, Cairo, Tokyo and Damascus. He worked for the EU Council of Ministers in 2003-2006.

Before joining the foreign service, he was active in the private business sector with the Middle East and North Africa, the focus being the people, their culture, prosperity and future.

Thesleff spoke to The Indian Express as part of a series of interviews with Ambassadors about Delhi — their home.

Edited excerpts:

One place in the city that you love visiting often?

… Delhi is very bustling, it’s a huge and vast city, so one has to look for a little bit of calm sometimes. Lodhi Garden is very peaceful, especially in the early mornings when people take walks here. I really feel that Lodhi Garden is the lungs of Delhi.

I think it (the city) has around 30 million people, but in many parts of Delhi, even though it’s huge, you don’t feel like there could be 30 million because it’s so spread out over an enormous area… in quite a few areas there aren’t many skyscrapers. Construction of the houses is a little low. So somehow, Delhi is the biggest small town in the world. You know, there is a kind of small-town feeling. And of course, it’s the administrative capital with many government buildings, some of them very, very beautiful… and old also. Other administrative capitals in the world are usually more calm, more quiet. Delhi is not quiet. It’s very much alive.

Three things that stood out during your stay?

One thing is that it’s an intellectual city. You can go to the bookshops in Delhi, and the same day as the book is published in New York, London, or Stockholm, you find it at Bahrison’s or somewhere else. So I think it’s a very cosmopolitan and also very intellectual city. And people are also very aware of what’s happening everywhere else.

The other thing that stands out for me is the mix of the hyper-modern and the traditional. For example, Chandni Chowk is bustling and you feel that you are really at the heart of the market and you have to be careful not to be run over by a bike while navigating the very small alleys. And then you go to the modern areas and you feel that you are in Los Angeles or Dubai. So you have in one city, the best of both worlds. And that’s a big difference from 30 years ago, you didn’t have these modern areas at all.

Another thing that stands out is that you have preserved your… heritage. I don’t mean just the monuments, but when you walk in Delhi, you find preserved architecture, you find these beautiful spots. And I like to go with my camera… So you have not destroyed your heritage from that point of view. In many cities, when the economy is developing, like in India, they tear down everything and build something completely new. But here in Delhi, you find this mix.

Favourite food in the city?

I think that Indian dishes are best when made at home. I try to do some cooking myself… I try to do a fusion… When I mix maybe some of the tastes from my country with, you know, with Indian spices. The other day I bought pani puri… and I filled it with Swedish ingredients. It was very crunchy and nice to eat.

I love butter chicken and chicken curries and all the dals… But I don’t cook these myself because I know it’s much better if you eat them at someone’s house.

There are also some very nice restaurants. I like Kwality at CP. They have, I think, very high-quality food; it also has a very nice interior and atmosphere. And when I have guests, even official guests, and we have some time off from official meetings, I try to take them there for lunch or dinner.

How would you describe Delhi to someone who doesn’t know anything about the city?

Delhi is in a way like India, in the sense that everything can be found in Delhi depending on where you look and where you go. You find all the religions, temples, churches, everything is there. Old styles, architecture, rich and poor, modern and old. I think that it’s somehow a world or a country within a city, if I have to describe it in just one sentence.

It’s not as easy to visit Delhi because Delhi is huge. And if you just have one day, I’m not sure you will grasp it. You have to live here and you have to not only go once, but go twice to different places and discover it in a way that maybe some tourists will miss if they are here for just one day.

Does the traffic bother you? How has it changed over the years?

There were a lot of cars… the traffic was quite dense back then also… Of course, there are more cars now and Delhi is much bigger. The infrastructure has improved a lot. So I would say there were much less cars, but there was more unregulated traffic.

Cities like Delhi and other big cities — all of them have a smell and a sound. Of course, if you are in a very noisy place, it’s very troublesome. But generally, I like the sound of cities… There is a certain feeling to that.

I had a friend who said if there is no noise, I cannot sleep. I’m used to being in a big city and I think it’s true, actually… Let’s put it that way. I like the sounds of the city and I think that is characteristic of each city. They have their own sound…

How is Delhi different from other cities in India?

I think of some of the cities where I’ve been — and I don’t want to mention any of them because then people will not think it’s good that I say it — they have been quite small cities, and they have grown out of their original size. So sometimes to go from one place to the other, you spend two-three hours within a city. Even it takes a shorter time to fly to that city from Delhi than to go within the city. These cities have really grown out of their own costumes, so to say.

In Delhi, of course, there is traffic… but still, I feel that Delhi was built to be a big city. For instance, the streets of New Delhi are wide. I think Delhi was made to be big, prepared to be big.

Is there anything you would want to suggest to the administrators of Delhi to make it more livable?

No, I think that Delhi has a very good structure or good bones. I think what we are all preoccupied with — if you are an Indian or a foreigner or wherever you come from — is we would like to see improved air quality in Delhi.

I would also like to see urban infrastructure in some areas. In many places, you hear of floods during the monsoon and things like that. I still think Delhi is better off in a certain aspect because you have so much greenery. We need to bring down the pollution level and maybe improve public transportation. Electric buses, electric vehicles and so on.

We, Sweden, are working very much not only with Delhi but with India when it comes to sustainable solutions — energy saving, water saving, water purification, e-vehicles… all these things. With Sweden and India working together, Delhi will be an even more beautiful place.

Encounters in the capital that will stay with you always?

You know, I’ve met your foreign minister, Dr S Jaishankar… I’ve met your former presidents. These were amazing encounters but work-related. Leaving these aside, I remember one encounter. I was walking in a street in Delhi and there was an old man dressed in very simple clothes… he was not a rich man and had a problem walking. There was a stray dog that had hurt its leg. The man was putting a bandage around the leg of the dog. And the street dog was very quiet. And I thought that this was the face of humanity. I like the way people treat animals. I wish I had clicked a photo to give to you with the man and the dog.

What would you miss the most once you say goodbye to the city?

I’m not going to say goodbye. Not yet. Now, I think that my experience from other places that I’ve lived in and left eventually has taught me that you miss the people that you met the most. The city you can always come back to, but it’s more difficult to come back to the people because people are moving, people are changing.

Something I appreciate very much in Delhi is that despite being so big, it’s very green. In many areas, despite the air pollution, we have a lot of greenery, a lot of animals and birds… You hear all the trees. I will also always remember that. That’s also something that I think I will keep with me when I leave.