P Chidambaram Interview: ‘Rahul Gandhi correctly asked the question (on when Pak was informed), and MEA clarified. No further comment’

* Congress leader Rahul Gandhi has said that remarks by External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar suggest that Pakistan was informed before India struck Pakistan terror bases. The MEA has rejected this as ‘misrepresentation’.

I have no comment. The statement of the Minister of External Affairs is capable of two interpretations. Mr Rahul Gandhi correctly asked the question, and the Ministry of External Affairs has given a clarification. I have no further comment on that.

* The government is sending all-party delegations abroad to put the government’s point of view on the Pahalgam attack and Pakistan before the world. How do you view that?

By and large it’s a good decision to send multi-party delegations to capitals of the world… See, what these MPs will explain is only the government stand. They will not add or subtract from the government stand. They will not add their own party’s positions or doubts. They will simply, faithfully convey the government stand. And I don’t see anything wrong in the government enlisting the services of multi-party delegations to explain its stand.

* You have been Union Home Minister, and know Kashmir closely. At the time, attempts were made to remove AFSPA from some areas. Do you feel you may have handled things in Kashmir differently?

What we did was enormous. It is now widely accepted that after 2008 (the Amarnath Yatra row) and 2010 (street-wide protests in the Valley), terrorist attacks in J&K drastically came down. Numbers of foreign and home-grown terrorists drastically came down. But in the last four-five years, the numbers have again gone up… the number of security forces killed, terrorists killed.

Even when the graph came down (in our time), we never claimed that there was zero terrorism. That claim was made by the present government… I don’t believe there was zero terrorism, or you can achieve zero terrorism simply by reducing the status of J&K from a state to two Union Territories (including Ladakh). But this government claimed zero terrorism.

Why did Uri (attack on Army base) happen then? Why did Pulwama (attack on a CRPF convoy), Pahalgam happen?… There will be terrorist incidents, I hope they are few… (going) down to nil. There will be homegrown terrorists supported by infiltrated terrorists. We must always be vigilant… We can’t sit back and say we have achieved zero terrorism.

* The UPA government is being accused of letting Pakistan get off easy after the 26/11 Mumbai attack, with the BJP saying that Operation Sindoor will force Pakistan to change its ways.

Government records show that after the Mumbai attack in 2008, Uri was the first Pakistan-sponsored, infiltrated terrorist attack. There was no terrorist attack which could be sourced to Pakistan between 2008 and 2016 (the UPA government fell in 2014, and the BJP came to power). Uri happened in 2016, Pulwama in 2019 and now Pahalgam. Therefore, the strategy that we followed did pay some dividends. I’m not saying terrorism was wiped out, but it did pay dividends…

I would attribute that relative calm and relative terrorist-free situation to the measures we took in Kashmir, especially the three-member delegation which went and engaged the people of Kashmir, the interlocutors which went to Kashmir, and then the restoration of freedoms, withdrawal of troops, removal of barricades, especially in Srinagar, and those helped win the confidence of the people.

See the government, whichever government is in office, must win the trust and confidence of the people. I think that trust and confidence were seriously dented by the reduction of the status of Kashmir to a Union Territory and the non-fulfilment of the promise made by the government to hold elections (for a long time). Keep aside Article 370, which is a controversial subject… Why did you reduce the status of Kashmir to a Union Territory… delay elections?

* Prime Minister Narendra Modi has said that Operation Sindoor is the new normal.

I don’t accept the argument that it’s a new normal. What is new about it? The three points – that every terrorist attack will be met with an effective response, there would be no succumbing to nuclear blackmail, and no distinction would be made between State terrorists and other terrorists – this is nothing new. The Prime Minister has, of course, put all three together in an important speech… therefore, it appears new. This is a long-held position of India.

* The terrorists who carried out Pahalgam are yet to be arrested, while the accountability for why it happened has not been fixed. What would you have done differently if you were the Home Minister?

See, it’s easy to give unsolicited advice. It’s not easy to find terrorists. Suppose the terrorists who caused the Pahalgam attack are deep inside Kashmir… they will be found out sooner than later. But if they have escaped to Pakistan, it’s going to be difficult to find them. I don’t fault the government for that… I’m sure they are making all the efforts to identify the terrorists. They have at least identified an organisation, TRF (The Resistance Front), a front of the Lashkar-e-Taiba…

The more important question is, what was the intelligence failure, because clearly, there was an intelligence failure. Ministers have more or less admitted there was a grave intelligence failure.

Secondly, law and order is under the control of the Lieutenant Governor in J&K. Why were there no policemen or security forces at that particular place? These are legitimate questions, and I’m sure the government will, in due course, give an answer. Which is why the Congress and other parties are asking for a Parliament Session and for an all-party meeting… We support the counter-offensive… But what were the causes behind the attack and what were the failures… How long can it be not discussed?…

It’s a long border, almost 3,300 km… There will be infiltration because the adversary is also determined… I have no doubt about our determination, (but) I have a doubt about the determination being implemented on the ground. Even if we lower our guard for two days, there will be infiltration… The better course is to not make these claims (of zero terrorism), but admit that we are vigilant, we are determined to stop infiltration… And then leave it there.

* There is tension between the Lieutenant Governor and the sitting Chief Minister in J&K, because under the UT structure, he is not part of the security framework. What is your view on this?

I don’t believe the Union Territory status is legitimate or justified… How can the Lieutenant Governor hold the responsibility for law and order and the Chief Minister hold the responsibility for all other matters? It (may be) alright in a small place like Puducherry or Andaman Nicobar or Lakshadweep… But J&K is a complex state, it doesn’t work. The immediate task is to restore statehood and make the CM wholly responsible, while the Governor only has titular responsibility.

* Arrests have been made across the country over remarks made regarding Operation Sindoor, including of a professor of Ashoka University. What are your thoughts… also as a lawyer?

I have read it (the professor’s post) once, twice. Now, which part of that speech is objectionable… I think this question should be asked to the Haryana Police which arrested him.

* On the government’s first outreach to the Taliban, do you think the recent developments are the reason behind it?

See, never say, never. So, things will change. Change is the order of nature. For example, when Bangladesh was liberated, we swore loyalty to each other… forever and forever. Now, what is the state of the relations between India and Bangladesh? The Taliban may have been sort of an adversary a few years ago, but it is in control of Afghanistan. You have to deal with the Taliban. Mr Putin is in control of Russia. Mr Xi is in control of China, Mr Erdogan is in control of Turkey. Are we refusing to deal with Mr Putin or Mr Xi or Mr Erdogan?