‘We’ve to prove we’re honest, not crooks. The onus has shifted to members of Parliament’

• The experience must come handy.

Well, of course, my greatest advantage is I know almost all the leaders of different political parties, and there may be personal friendship. They may be angry with me but ultimately they come down on the basis of friendship…Advaniji came to my house at breakfast. There’s no friction between us.

• In a way they couldn’t have found a more respectable, respected referee.

See, I believe in certain principles. Once I am inside the House and even on the Chair, you really belong to that House and not only that, I feel I belong to the country because the country is looking after the House, and they expect that we should perform in a manner which would look into their affairs, problems, and what greater place is there than Parliament of India, where the people have elected all of us? And therefore I have no tension. You may have noticed that recently, my party leader made a demand that Somnathda you are not allowing us to speak. So long as you speak relevant and within time, I’ll allow it.

• It’s like when you had an umpire from own countries. Cricket teams sometimes would say that our umpires give decisions against us just to look impartial.

No, Not consciously impartial. I want that everybody should get appropriate opportunity. And I believe in the Opposition getting more opportunity. I’ve said it and I’ve tried to prove it also. We had a short period and yet, with the 138 members now, the BJP has got half the time…and the other 350 members have got the same. But that’s not the way to do it. I say you get all Opposition to speak (on) whatever subjects you want. But I have no intention to protect the Government per se. A genuine motion is a genuine motion. The Government cannot prove its majority…it’s not…my job to protect…But certainly people have given their verdict in favour of the Government. That means they have their own laws and new laws have to be made. They have to implement their manifesto. That opportunity should be also given in the House…

• We are talking at the Mohun Bagan clubhouse, so I can’t but use some football terminology. Do you sometimes wish you had red cards and yellow cards in Parliament?

Some powers are there. All parties, all leaders agreed that the members who come to the Well would be automatically suspended, but no Speaker has done it and I hope it will not be necessary to use it. But I have warned, I have issued a warning to one or two members. I said please, please behave, otherwise, I may be forced to take unpleasant action.

• I know they will use the red card metaphor wrongly just because you are from the CPI(M).

My commitment is very simple. I say the people of this country must have faith in Parliament. We are utilising the time, discussing issues which will solve their problems. Otherwise they’ll say what is this for? There is sometimes quite justified criticism. That we’re wasting time, the people’s money is wasted, we’re not discussing main issues. I’m not blaming as such, just see the new government’s policy has not been discussed…Well, my friends in the Opposition felt it was more important to raise other issues. I don’t blame them, but the country has the view…

• Maybe it could be because both sides had not quite reconciled with the change. The winners that they’ll be in power, and the losers that they’ll be in opposition.

Naturally, they were in power for six years. (It’s) certainly not easy to immediately reconcile yourself. And probably, the country believes, that they felt they were going to come back to power. As a matter of fact, I asked Vajpayeeji when I called on him to pay my respects. I said, ‘Did you ever expect you might lose. He said no’. It was fair enough. And why not? I don’t know about your paper, but I think most of the…

• Everybody went wrong, although I would say we went wrong the least. But you think that the disappointment has led to bitterness or anger?

No, I don’t say bitterness. You see, I can’t say that they are totally wrong in raising the issue. Of couse eveyrbody’s talking of criminalisation of politics. But…we have to see how to raise it, how to sort of sort out this problem…Just see this Chandrasekhara Rao. How do they prove?…Immediately a non-bailable warrant is issued when the man is in the Centre. Immediately he’s being, sort of, tried…

• But his case is different from that of many others. There are really serious charges.

No, I am not comparing. Immediately the question says a sitting minister, a Cabinet minister against whom a non-bailable warrant…

• But anybody can file it.

…I had said at one place issues like these, I mean cases like these, as against all other Indians, should be disposed of quickly so that…

• How worried are you about criminalisation, about people with serious criminal cases in the Cabinet?

Of course I am worried. See the question is, if ultimately any of these gentlemen is acquitted, what happens to him? Supposing he’s kept for years out of any political position. Then after 10 years, the case is decided and he’s acquitted. Then who’ll give him back his 10 years?… Electoral reforms which are needed have not come up. There are all these—money power, muscle power…I was a member along with many of the leaders in a committee for state funding of election. It was felt to be a method which would help. But that was hardly implemented. As a matter of fact, one of Advaniji’s first actions was to help constitute this committee. But even he could not…

• So what’s the solution? You have any long-term answers in mind?

All these political parties have to have more sincerity and more commitment because such candidates should not be put up. Instead of imposing something from the top, we must grow up to this commitment to miminum democratic principles. Cases are there, which is also for the individuals to try to get out of or get himself exonerated…But you put up candidates who’re in jail and then the question comes: What is the greatest strength of parliamentary democracy? It’s the people’s participation. It’s people’s faith in the system. If they lose faith in this system, what is the alternative? Dictatorship. Therefore my commitment is…this was a totally unsolicited and unexpected job I have got. And it has totally changed, in a sense actually changed my entire life, the way I’ve been functioning…

• That’s what some of us say. That now they’ve made you the Speaker, with capital ‘S’. So they’ve put a gag on you.

Gagging is there, and many others…See, I was quite happy in the West Bengal Industrial Development Corporation (WBIDC), now I had to give it up. I did give up, I wasn’t obliged, but I have given it up. It was not possible to…so many organisations, schools, colleges and trade unions, everything…

• We will come back to that later, but the Prime Minister has come up with some ideas on criminalisation. Would you be in favour of either special courts, fast-track courts…?

Yes, I would be. Certainly. Because lots of avoidable criticism is there about the question marks in the system. Why are many young bright boys and girls not coming to politics? I remember some young girls came to me, asking me certain questions. I asked one of them, quite a bright girl, what would she want to be in life. She said everything except politics. I said this is the danger. That bright girls and boys don’t come to politics. How can you have the talent in the country utilised fully without politics? Can you have a government in this country without politics?

• That’s the interesting part because Parliament has actually become more representative now. People of the kind who never came to Parliament are now coming and they didn’t exactly go to Cambridge or Middle Temple…

Therefore I felt this affadavit which is now required to be filed is not serving any purpose. Tell me, somebody who has not gone to Cambridge or Middle Temple, is he not qualified to come to Parliament? If somebody is illiterate, he’s also qualified to come to Parliament if he gets the people’s support. And poor people. What’s the good of saying this, I would like to know? Please make an investigation. A channel like yours, a paper like yours, should do that. How many people read the affidavits they filed? It’s like I had to spend a lot of money for evaluation of my little assets in my rural areas whose location I don’t know…

• So, you’re saying that the parties themselves should bring in the corrective. They should not give tickets to people with criminal records…

That’s the easiest way to do it.

• If they don’t do it, would you recommend a system where parties submit that if we give tickets to somebody with criminal cases, he should then be willing to go before a special court or fast-track court?

Yes, why not? I say that the system should be in-built…ordinary people should share it. Why should politicians get priority? I don’t want the priority per se, but the system, criminal justice system requires a lot of things to be done for improving it.

• In one particular case, one of the higher courts has commmented that an MP is obstructing justice using his clout in Bihar.

That should not be allowed. Those are our weaknesses and our system’s also. Why should anybody be in a position to misutilise his…?

• These things lead to caricaturisation of politicians as crooks, the mafiosi in movies.

Yes, we have to now prove that we are honest, that we are not crooks. The onus has shifted to members of Parliament, the politicians. Therefore, I was suggesting that good people, the talented…One day, I remember Kiran Bedi came here and in a debate she lambasted the politicians saying they’re good-for-nothings, they’re finishing the country and all that. I said, then you come to politics.

• That’s the argument Anil Ambani used for coming into Parliament, saying that people like us keep complaining but don’t enter politics.

Therefore, I would prefer…

• But when I mentioned that, I saw a mischievous smile on your face.

You see, coming through direct elections is a much better way of…

• It’s like finding a way into the Rajya Sabha…

That’s the method allowed in the country, although I am opposed to that system of open ballot and all that. My party is totally committed against it. And I was the only person inside the House to criticise it.

• But you’ve taken certain interesting positions in your party as well. I think you were called MoU dada because you were filing so many memoranda…

I said I was proud, at least the people heard about MoU. Earlier, they had not. And nobody bothered to find out.

• You said you made your party in the state familiar with the word MoU. This was 1991-92 when India was opening up…

1994. I was…

• But 1991-92 as well. West Bengal, the Left began to look at reforms in a different way, at least industrialisation. Now what do you think the Left has learnt, and your party?

This is not remembered by many people, many friends. Well-wishers of ours had no doubt that we had suffered from the freight equalisation system.

• And because of that, the industry had suffered.

Naturally, because licence is given to others. I don’t want to enter into this controversy. Once this was removed, freight equalisation was almost relaxed and the licence system was almost withdrawn, and then people started looking into which will be the proper place. And that’s why I said in 10 years, we should be at the top, and we’re almost at the top.

• Now we find, all of us find, West Bengal is one of the fastest moving (states) in the area of reform.

See, what is reform? According to me, reform is which would be for the better, improvement in the conditions of the people, more opportunities, more…But reform’s been given a (different) meaning. That’s why so many question marks are there. It means you open up the door and everything should be privatised, everybody can come in. This is the general perception of reform. That’s why the worker is resisting. ‘There’s no security of job’; ‘I am not told what will happen to me if my company becomes sick’; ‘There’s no protection for me, you send me to BIFR, they say go to hell’. Therefore, always, there’s a question mark. Not only that, if there had been transparency also…Therefore, I have said don’t keep talking too much of reform.

• Do the right thing…

I’ve been telling the Government of India also, in my own humble way, that why are you using the word reform and then saying privatisation is the only mantra. Maybe a mantra if you had done it in a mannner that shows better results. If you have better results, and they (the workers) don’t suffer on the ground, they would accept with open arms.

• But you know, certain things happened in pre-reform days. For example, Buddhadeb has talked about gherao being their contribution to…

I have been saying, you put somebody in power and he will find out what are the problems. When I came to the chairmanship, I realised what are the problems. And then how do you sort these out? I have gone to almost all the leading Capitalist countries (as part of a) delegation with full concurrence of Jyoti Basu, I was telling them what is West Bengal. When I was invited by the Japan Chamber of Commerce, we had a very good meeting and they asked me for a luncheon speech. I did that. One gentleman came to me and said, ‘I didn’t know West Bengal had no loadshedding’. I asked who he was. He said Amardeep Kumar, Counsellor of Indian Embassy at Tokyo. He does not know anything about West Bengal!

• But West Bengal apart, what Buddhadeb said again and again is that maybe trade unionism lost its way, it became too militant. In fact, he said it was foolish to do things that we did in the past. Do you also have regrets about the past?

No, no regrets. No way out was seen. West Bengal was not in the reckoning of anybody. Even now, I can tell with all honesty, without any rancour, that FICCI or the CII, did they ever think of sending any delegation to Bengal? No. Ask the Government of India, the Industry Ministry or Finance Minister. Therefore, we have to make efforts ourselves, to come, to know people…

• But do you share Buddhadeb’s view that mistakes were made?

Mistakes were made, of course. There’s a clear indication that it was suicidal. It was not only wrong, it was suicidal.

• And this business of bandhs?

Of course, it is. Now we’re realising it.

• Does the Left realise it or lately has the other side? Mamata?

Whether she’s realising it or not, I don’t know. She’s got only one weapon…

• But does the Left understand that bandhs are not the right way to…?

I cannot say bandh is never the right way. But we must select the issues before we go for a bandh.

• Because in Kerala, I remember, there was a bandh called when Clinton came to India.

Yes, something like that doesn’t take far. When the war secretary, McNamara, came, there were lots of demonstrations here. But nowadays we have learnt also that India has a great role and we can’t take up…

• We can’t be isolationists.

No, we can’t be. Certainly we don’t. See what’s happening to China, that’s a great lesson for us all.

• Look at a place like the Mohun Bagan Club. Football is the most globalised sport. You find people who play for the same club are now in opposing teams. And once I saw a marvellous sight, Bergkamp passing the ball to Viera in Euro 2000.

That is why always I’m fighting with my wife. Because all the matches I see, first division premier league in England…

• But Mohun Bagan, it is your club.

This is my club, the national club of India. Mohun Bagan’s contribution to the nation freedom struggle is unique. In 1911, when my club got the IFA shield, beating the British…

• Somnathda, you’ve been an MP for 10 terms, in a way you’re one of our most respected MPs. How come you are not in the CPI(M) Politburo? Is it because you’re modern or because you’re a Mohun Bagan fan?

No, no I think I am not victimised. I came to the party in 1973 and you see, they had jobs assigned. Even a full-time MP hardly has any time to spare. And that is a matter which is entirely for the party. I have no feelings of regret at all. Central Committee membership is a great recognition as far as am concerned, and I’m very happy. And I have always said that one thing I shall never give up willingly on my own, and this is the membership of my party.

• And the club.

Of course.

• But you have no regrets?

No, no. On the other hand, the opportunity the party has given to me, in times I have been put up as candidate…

• And nobody’s calling this a historical blunder now…We can use that.

This is not appropriate now. But the party’s given me this great honour. What more? Ten times, to put up a candidate…

• You started telecast of Zero Hour. Did you face protest from the MPs?

No. As a matter of fact, I told the honourable leaders at my meeting, and nobody objected to it. But what I did not know honestly, until I saw the guidelines, that when there are disturbances, only focus (on) the Chair, the helpless person. But I have removed that.

• Have you been watching C-Span, the channel that shows every standard committee hearing…

I have seen, in England. I made a similar proposal here but didn’t find many takers…I have to talk to them. Then I also want that standing committee reports—which are hardly read by any officer even—I want that within two months, the ministers…

• I think some of the JPCs, if telecast live, would be interesting. For example, the Pepsi Coke JPC. Particularly, if you allow MPs to wear logos of the companies…

You see, Parliament is not on camera. Why should the committee be? That’s my view. But I had to persuade my friends in the…

• The other thing that happens with the committees is the draft says one thing and the final report says something else, and that leads to a lot of suspicion.

Unnecessarily. Why should you see? I’m sure that not every committee meeting, when there are 24 committees, that all of them will be watched by camera. When they know some interesting subject is being discussed, they will go there, and why should we hide anything?

• We should allow commercial breaks.

Commercial breaks, well, that is for them. Without in any way dishonouring the proceedings or minimising their importance.

• We saw T N Seshan, J M Lyngdoh change the Election Commission. Justice J S Verma and Justice Anand do that to the NHRC. Now we have got a Speaker…

A Speaker cannot do it. And for this, I am glad you asked me, not only do I rely on my colleagues in Parliament, but I considerably and greatly rely on the media. Honestly, I call the editors, the senior journalists—because after all, you are playing a great role in moulding public opinion and informing the people. Therefore the people should also feel that it is always better that public opinion should be created, but Parliament should function.

• But you think that if you made the functioning more transparent and exposed to public eye, that would bring discipline in Parliament?

You see, I said that honestly, when I allow the telecast of the remaining period, I did not say that my intention is to discipline the members. I said I conceive the right of the people to know…

• Just hold the mirror to Parliament.

Yes, let the people know. There are visitors in the gallery, there are citizens of India, they are seeing, press people are seeing.

• Let the rest of the country see.

(Let) the rest of the country see. Therefore, my request and humble request to everybody, and also my dream, that one day they shall be at Parliament.