Ambassador of Japan to India Hiroshi Hirabayashi was a key member of the Japanese PMO before he came to India some four months ago. As the only country to have been the victim of a nuclear bomb, Japan was horrified when India went nuclear. But Hirabayashi seems determined to put the bilateral relationship back on track. He spoke to JYOTI MALHOTRA, in his first interview to the media since New Delhi's nuclear tests. Excerpts:What is your assessment of the bilateral relationship?My beliefs do not change. India and Japan are two great nations, the two biggest democracies in Asia. There is broad scope of co-operation, both bilaterally and globally, as in the Security Council, where India and Japan are aspirants for permanent seats. Despite the nuclear tests, this conviction does not change. But because of them, India's international standing has been eroded. Subsequent weaponisation and development of delivery systems run counter to the aspirations of the global community. Japanese peopleask where India is going, the India they know of Mahatma Gandhi, Nehru.How have India's aspirations for a Security Council seat been affected?Because the world is dismayed. As long as India continues in this way, her aspirations will be continued to be undermined.How?Some Indians may think possession of nuclear weapons may justify a seat in the Council. But the international community does not think in that way. Why should the Council be enlarged? In order to contribute to UN causes through economic contribution, moral high ground, etc. International standing is not solely determined by military hardware, let alone n-weapons. The UN does not need any more n-aspirants or n-weapons powers in the Security Council. It has enough of them. The new members should be selected from non-nuclear powers, that is the majority opinion of the UN.Do you consider nuclear India to be a security threat to Japan?No, not at all. The question itself surprises me. You may be a securitythreat to some countries in your neighbourhood, but not Japan. We continue to think that India is a friend of ours. There is no reason to be concerned about India in that context. But there could be some concern to the international community, because the two countries (India and Pakistan) are not on talking terms, you're virtually exchanging small fire everyday and killing each other. And you now have n-weapons. Also your tests may ignite a chain reaction of nuclear proliferation.Why has Japan taken the lead to invite Pakistan to the Asean Regional Forum security meeting in end-July, knowing that Pakistan is not a member of the ARF?That idea is already behind us. The ARF is a forum to discuss security issues in Asia, so the two countries who have tested should be there. Pakistan is not a member so it could be invited as an observer. But India and some other countries were opposed. Since the ARF is based on consensus, the idea was dropped.After the Indian tests, why did Japanese PMHashimoto tell the Pakistanis he would help them put Kashmir on the international agenda?My PM has never directly talked to the Pakistanis. The remark made to journalists was misreported. His intention was not to force Japanese intervention on the two parties. The bilateral nature of this issue has not changed, but the implications of this issue on your neighbourhood have changed. Japan's position is to ask the two countries to be engaged in dialogue. We wish you good luck. If the two sides request Japan, then my government is ready to offer a venue for such bilateral talks.Have you made this offer yet?No, no, I have never talked about this to Indian officials. We have never offered a venue, because it's up to you. Until we're requested, we won't move.Do you think Kashmir is the root cause of the tension?It's complicated. It's not only the territorial issue, you have religious problems, etc. Kashmir may be the single-most important issue, but it's not the only issue.Doyou think the Indian government's willingness to sign the CTBT is a good signal to restart the bilateral economic relationship?Our measures cover only foreign assistance, they do not cover trade and investment. That is business as usual. If it's not, there must be some other reasons. Our measures are very different from US sanctions which are sweeping sanctions. In fact, they call them sanctions, we call them measures.So will signing the CTBT help?We have not yet charted our course of action. We have not set any pre-conditions. Signing the CTBT helps a lot of course. But India's conditions to sign, including an exemption for fullscope safeguards on your nuclear facilites, are not acceptable. Even the US, the authors of the non-proliferation regime, cannot accept the Indian conditions. Until India is recognised as a de jure nuclear weapon state of the NPT, technology transfer cannot take place. So India is requesting something which is not only not possible, but not acceptable.ButRussia and the France seem to be willing to sell n-technology?No. The P-5 and the G-8 are united on the core issue of not lifting access to technology unless India abides by the various treaties. There is some difference on the application of economic sanctions with France and Russia, which is why the G-8 was perceived as sending mixed signals.But India will never sign the NPT. Then that favour will not be granted to India.Are the tests responsible for the deterioration in the economic situation?The nuclear tests are only one of the reasons. Other reasons are the East Asian financial crisis, the budget, and some swadeshi rhetoric. More importantly, your economy needs to accelerate reform, to improve the environment for investors, scrap red tapism, bureaucratic harassment and delays. Such things are more important.Your country is big enough not to be influenced by only one factor (of the nuclear tests). It is very different for Pakistan, whose economy is heavily affected by thesanctions. They are in a much more serious situation. We are very concerned about Pakistan, not so much India.So if the economic climate is improved, then the tests don't really matter?Yes, because my government doesn't say anything to Japanese investors, it does not discourage them. But here, frankly speaking, they are harassed by lower-level bureaucrats. But, they still see India as one of the most promising destinations. It's really up to you.
