‘The captain should be appointed for a year, and allowed to settle down’

Yeah, I became captain in February 2000 after we came back from Australia. After the second Test against South Africa.

By Indian standards a long-lasting captain… by any standards a long-lasting captain. Captains don’t have a high survival rate these days in cricket.

No, not really. Stephen Fleming has been captain of New Zealand for quite some time now — I think seven-eight years. Nasser Hussain led England for six-seven years. Obviously, Steve Waugh has been captain for five years now.

But at the other end are the Pakistanis…

Yeah, I think it has got to do with the system of every country. I always feel that if the captain has to do anything with the team along with the coach and other members, the captain has to get a longer tenure because he can’t just come, take over the job and do things overnight. Because it is a hard job. Because a lot of things go…the pressure, you have got to think about your game, the team’s performances, you are answerable to a whole lot of people.

In India you are answerable to a hundred-crore people, because we are a country with a hundred-crore cricket coaches!

Yes, it is. But at the same time, it’s still an honour leading the country. It’s a dream for any cricketer. But, as I said, the pressure is very, very high.

So are you saying it’s a better idea if the captain is given at least a minimum tenure? Like a coach or a trainer — three years, two years, five years….

I think three years is too long a time straightaway. I think whoever is made captain in any part of the world should be given the job for a year. A year is quite a long time with the amount of cricket we play. And he should be allowed to settle down because he needs to get to know the boys, he has to get his mindset correct. And you won’t be a great captain overnight. You’ll get better with experience.

Unlike a captain until the end of the series or captain for the next series; is that fair?

It’s tough for the captain, because he feels that if he doesn’t do well every series, he might not be captain again. It puts additional pressure on him, and in any case there’s enough pressure that comes with the job.

And on the rest of the team because they don’t know who will be the boss tomorrow.

Yes, it’s tough on the team.

Would you also recommend that the cricket establishment give the captain a little more space — in the sense that you are the captain for a year, and while we want you to perform and it’s good if you do, but we are not linking your overall performance with your individual performances?

No, I don’t think so. I don’t think that’s right. A captain is just part of the eleven members of the team and he is just been asked to lead the team. His performance should be accountable and his personal performance — whether he is a batsman or a bowler or an all-rounder — should be up with the standards required for the team to do well. Because at the end of the day, how many runs you score and how many wickets you take decide the fate of a cricket match and the success of the team.

But you’ve had some lows in terms of your own performance while captaining — in Sri Lanka, in New Zealand…

Yes, that was 2001 when I struggled a bit. But that’s going to happen when you’ve been around for eight-nine years. That was probably the first and only season that I had struggled a bit with the amount of runs. But since then I have a had a pretty successful… last year I had a successful year. That’s what I said; every captain needs time to settle down.

But New Zealand was tough?

Yeah, New Zealand was tough. That was the only segment of the year where the full team had a bit of a problem. But I wouldn’t consider New Zealand a huge thing to worry about.

Looking back three years; how does the state of the Indian team differ from what it was three years back to what it is now? I am not asking specifically about the difference you have made because then you’ll say obviously that everybody’s contributed.

I think the talent has been much more than what it used to be. We have people like Sehwag, Zaheer, Harbhajan, Nehra, Yuvraj, Kaif who are just matchwinners. If you want your team to succeed, you need guys to win you games. The work ethic in the team has become much better than what it used to be. We have got an overseas coach John, (Wright). I think everybody in the team likes him. And to be honest, he’s also been allowed to settle down. He’s also been given a two-year span which has helped him settle down into the game, get to know the boys, work on the boys, get to know how everybody’s mindset is. Because in the past we have had coaches for six months, four months, one year and by the time they realised, by the time they got used to the team, they were out of the job.

But what has changed with the mindset? Is it less willing to lose?

It is. It is combative. You know, one thing is related to the other. The sheer talent makes them better cricketers than the rest and just because they are better cricketers than the rest they don’t want to lose.

What’s been your contribution to this? Then I will suggest to you what I think you’ve changed.

To be honest, my main thing was to build the team, because teams from the subcontinent, especially India and Pakistan, there’s so much of talent, that they survive on sheer brilliance. I wouldn’t consider Sri Lanka as talented as India and Pakistan. The coaching techniques for younger boys is not the best all over India. They just play for the sheer love of the game and that’s where the natural talent blossoms. And we’ve just survived on that. When I became captain I realised that no, we need to play as a team. I was helped obviously by John, because his attitude towards the game is also of teamwork. In the past you would have seen a lot of great players who got outstanding records, but Team India hadn’t done well. So we started giving importance to small contributions which could make a team win. Like you know, we started acknowledging, or congratulating, say 20 in 15 balls at the end, although it may not look like a big score.

In a one-day match that makes a big difference.

Whether it’s a one-day or a Test. Anything. Small performances like Sanjay Bangar did a job in New Zealand when he was asked to bowl against the breeze and he bowled ten overs. He just picked a couple of wickets. That was appreciated. These things get appreciated which makes the boys realise that if we do our bit and help the team win….

Give me some examples of when you’ve thought that this was a moment where you could do something to inspire the team or change the mindset and make them play and look less like a traditional Indian team.

Like Mohammed Kaif during the World Cup. He was struggling with form, but we still persisted with him at number seven, because batting in one-day cricket at number seven is not easy. People like us who bat at the top — you know, I struggled for the first two one-day games in the World Cup, but then finished the tournament with three hundreds and 500 runs. But people like Kaif and Yuvraj who come at six or seven don’t get to bat 40-45 overs, even if they are out of form for one or two games, to get an opportunity to get back into runs. There was many a time when he (Kaif) had to get into a situation in one-day cricket where he had to throw his wicket away for the team. He would walk back to the dressing room and the senior guys and the coach would appreciate it — ‘‘no, this is what you are required to do at that position and you’ve done as good a job as people like me or Sachin or Rahul (Dravid) or Sehwag, who are at the top of the batting order, scoring a 50 or a 100.’’ That would encourage him.

Have you ever faced a situation where a youngster has been really low for a long time with bad performances and you’ve had to sit him down and said, ‘‘Look, you are one afternoon away from greatness.’’

Yeah, yeah, it is. I’ve spoken to Yuvi; Kaif… a lot of these guys…(VVS) Laxman, who’s had a bit of an up-and-down career, but who I think is one of the best players in the world.

Did he know the history of not just Indian cricket, but world cricket…

And he’ll write a lot more. The innings which he played here against Australia was one of the best I’ve seen in my life. Under pressure…and he won the series. He and Rahul on that day at the Eden Gardens, the fourth day of the Test match, just won the series.

What changed things? What turned things in that series?

I think it was the belief that we can win. After the first Test which we lost in Mumbai there was a lot of talk that this team cannot win. Obviously, change captain, change him, change players But once we finished the Test match, we closed the dressing room and we had a chat, because there was a lot of hue and cry. There was a big hype about the series and Australia came and beat us in three days. So we had to go back to the dressing room; shut everything out — media, people, officials; just the 11 boys and the coach….

Things had gone quite wrong in that match (Kolkata) also. At least halfway through.

Yeah, we were down and out on the second day. They had scored 400 and we were 160 all out.

Did someone still think a turnaround was possible?

To be honest, no. I said, ‘‘Let’s just go out and play. Let’s see what happens.’’ And when two people turn up and play outstanding knocks, it’s amazing. But, to be honest, every wicket had a partnership. The opening wicket had a partnership of 80 runs and when me and Laxman batted, we had a partnership of 140 runs.

Would you call that the highest point of your career?

No, I think the World Cup. Getting into the finals of the World Cup, because whatever you might say about the series, the World Cup is a different ball game.

Which particular game in the World Cup?

The Zimbabwe game. When we lost against Australia and came back and beat Zimbabwe in Zimbabwe.

Is playing Pakistan still different, or are we getting used to it?

It’s always going to be different. Whether you play Pakistan in hockey, whether you play Pakistan in cricket. It’s always going to be different because of the obvious reasons.

No, emotion is there. But is there tension, is there enmity, bitterness?

There has to be tension. No, I wouldn’t say there’s enmity between the players, but obviously the pressure off the field is so much it automatically gets deflected into the centre. Both the countries know there’s a lot at stake and whoever loses has to face a lot of consequences.

Does a lot of sledging take place in a Pakistan-India game?

A little bit. But I don’t think it’s ever gone out of hand. I think it’s become a part of modern-day sport.

Have you followed this controversy — Sunil Gavaskar and Steve Waugh talking about sledging in Australia?

Yeah, I’ve read about the controversy of Gavaskar and Steve Waugh. See, it’s become a part of the modern-day game and all I would say is I feel the umpires and match referees could be a bit stronger in this department if they want the system to go on.

Do you want red cards and yellow cards in cricket?

No, not red cards and yellow cards but quietly just express your opinion to every player that ‘‘I understand there are words going around, but let’s not make it personal and let’s not make it go out of hand.’’

Which was the toughest match from the sledging point of view?

I exactly don’t remember because it keeps on happening. To be honest, it’s never been out of hand for me when I have been captain. See, obviously a lot of people talk about the Australia-India series at home and all that, but I’ve always said it was a bit more hyped than….

But was there some psychological warfare played? Because when Australians play, they make no secret about it.

It was…obviously, before they arrived they said ‘‘we need to beat India’’… the final frontier — by the newspapers…. So, it was there. Because Steve wanted to win the series here. He knew how tough beating India in India is.

When did you decide to join the psychological warfare? When did you decide it was your turn?

Well, in the course of the series when we started to realise that things were getting slightly beyond limits.

What made you realise that?

Comments in the newspapers. Articles of captains… when they come to India people like Steve and McGrath write a lot in the columns.

Was there a particular line spoken or said that told you this is it, ‘‘I am drawing the line’’?

Lots. Lots of things that were written in columns. Lots of people from Australia starting to comment on the Indian team, Indian players. It was good in one sense, it made the boys a bit more determined that we have to do something about it and this was the first time I had seen an Indian team together — all 11 on the cricket field — decide that if it is going to go out of control, we have to…

The new fighting spirit is also… a lot of it is the north, the Punjabis. I know you are a Bengali and you’ve shown a lot of fighting spirit as well. But there’s something to this arrival of the north in the team.

I think it’s arrival of youth. There are a lot of young boys and they have been given the free hand to do what they feel is the best.

I told you at the beginning that I will tell you a couple of areas where I think you have made a difference. One is I think the nurturing and looking after the young boys and giving them confidence. And second, just bringing in this combativeness.

There are lots of things at stake and you know, it’s a question of every country’s reputation. The benefits which you get is much more.

But did you find this ‘nice guy’ syndrome as the bane of Indian cricket earlier?

To be honest, cricket overall has changed. I toured Australia in ’92 with India. And the Australian team now and the Australian team then, there’s a lot of difference in their attitude also. They were immensely different. Their attitude, their pressures and obviously what you spoke about sledging and discussions on the field. And cricket in ’92 and cricket in 2003, since 2000, has become totally different.

I remember when you and Rahul were batting in your debut Test match at Lord’s, I think at one point you tried to take a quick single and I think it was Alec Stewart who said from behind: ‘‘He’s trying to get off the strike.’’ Remember that?

Yeah. See these things are good, because these things provide a competition and provide an edge. Because that’s also a way of getting people out.

Would you also now do some of that?

A lot of countries do. I would be lying if I said that India doesn’t do it. Like when you play on a turning pitch, you hear the wicketkeeper saying, ‘‘Bowl this line,’’ whether he speaks in Hindi or in English. You know, ‘‘his leg’s going across,’’ ‘‘He doesn’t know how to play spin,’’ or if you see a batsman who is just trying to sweep, you see people straight bat. He’s not sure of his defence, so he’s sweeping.’’ These are small, small things which I think is….

Why is it part of the game — you don’t call it sledging?

No, this is not. But when you start abusing, when you start getting personal, that’s when….

Have you faced that — abuse or an opponent getting personal?

I have, but I don’t think I will be able to say that on air. But I have.

Which was your worst tour from a sledging point of view?

My worst tour from a sledging point of view…. I would rather say, to be honest, I have never really been affected, because I have always tried to turn my back on it, especially when I am batting because it affects my concentration. But I would say when you play Australia, it’s hard. South Africans, it’s hard, because they play hard cricket. England it’s hard. And I think it starts coming out with the pressure that….

Which match that was the toughest from this point of view.

The game in Madras against Australia. But it was not abusive. It had gone to a situation where anybody could win it. So obviously a lot of talk was going around.

The third thing that’s changed with Indian cricket is in the past, Indian batsmen were recipients of a lot of abuse from fast bowlers as well as close-in fielders. Now we are capable of giving it back in both areas. We’ve got fast bowlers who can bounce at the other guy.

More than giving it back, we have realised that this is also a way to get the opposition out. At the same time, you’ve got to be backed by the ability. By just talking or by just shouting you don’t get people out. And we are going to keep on producing because the system has changed.

How do we suddenly have fast bowlers in India?

Because the mindset has changed. This game is such a mind-game that you do what you think. So people have started to realise that…young guys have started to realise that we need fast bowlers. We need people like Zaheer, Ashish. We need somebody like Kapil Dev, who are going to come and win you games. And you’ve got facilities. You’ve got gyms all over the country, you’ve got fitness trainers who are professional, who know what they are doing.

At the same time, not enough spinners coming out?

No, I don’t agree. You see the problem is that you’ve got two great spinners in the side — Anil Kumble and Harbhajan Singh. Now, somebody like Murali Kartik, who I really feel is not getting enough opportunities because we’ve got two guys who are doing so well.

There’s a feeling that you have problems with genuine fast bowling, particularly on bouncier pitches. Have you handled some of that, particularly before going to Australia?

If you see my record: I’ve opened all this time in one-day cricket and you get fast bowlers all around the world and bouncers are allowed in one-day cricket now. In the last three years, I’ve scored 12 one-day 100s And in Test matches, whether it’s in England, or the West Indies, I’ve been successful. See, everybody has his own way out. No batsman is comfortable. But as long as you don’t get out and keep scoring runs….