‘Muslims need to shed fear, join mainstream’

• At the release, journalist M J Akbar differed with you as well as Goolam Vahanvati, Solicitor General of India, on the question of Muslims being in the mainstream.

It’s not a question of disagreement. Akbar gave the issue a different direction. He said Muslims were themselves mainstream. That’s an entirely different approach. You can’t have different mainstreams in the same country.

• So you believe that Muslims are out of the mainstream?

What I and Vahanvati emphasised was that Muslims need to become part of the mainstream. The fear that they will lose their identity if they join the mainstream is absurd. Akbar also refused to accept that Muslims were a minority. He said numbers didn’t matter as empowerment decided who was a minority and who wasn’t. Akbar said the Brahmins never felt they were a minority. True, the Brahmins are small in number, but they are powerful. But we shouldn’t forget that they are part of the Hindu religion. More than the Brahmins, the Parsis, a microscopic minority, have uplifted themselves and are dominant everywhere. Without confronting with the Hindus, they harnessed their energies, utilised the opportunities. I have always appealed to the Muslims to do the same. Confrontation brought disaster, before Partition and after it.

• You are very critical of the Muslim leadership.

The Muslim leadership has miserably failed in its duty. Both Sir Syed and the poet Iqbal told the community to embrace new education. Iqbal stirred his community: ‘‘Aaine nau se darna tarze kohan pe arna/ Manzil yehi kathin hai qaumon ki zindagi mein’’ (To fear the new rules and to be adamant about old mores/ These are the obstacles in the path of communities). I tell the same to the Muslims. Look at the Jews. No race was so persecuted for centuries as the Jews were in Europe. And then they told themselves that they had no friends, no well-wishers. They bounced back on their own. Today, they dominate every sector. Most of the Nobel prize winners are Jews. I believe the Muslims can do the same. They have that capacity. I feel that Indian Muslims can lead the Muslims of the world.

• In your book, you have likened Al Qaeda to the modern army of Halaku, the medieval marauders.

The so-called jihadis have done the greatest damage to Islam. Except for Hassan al-Sabbah who created assassins in the 11th century, no Muslim approved of terrorist activities. Even then, Imam Ghazali, a scholar, told Muslims: ‘‘If you don’t destroy these terrorists, they will destroy you.’’ It’s a very misguided movement.

• Some ulema don’t want to get rid of triple talaq.

How can you justify it when the Quran clearly lays down the ways to give talaq? It says that first efforts should be made for reconciliation between husband and wife by an arbitrator. In the second stage, further efforts should be made, and then, if nothing works, talaq becomes the final solution. Triple talaq contradicts the message of Islam.

• A member of the Muslim Personal Law Board has suggested family planning for Muslims. Do you agree?

I welcome this move. Nowhere is it written that Muslims should have many kids. Somewhere, some mad mullahs say something, and the media highlights it.

• Some Muslims accuse you of being soft on Hindutva.

This is the biggest lie. It’s I who responded to the canard against Islam by the likes of Arun Shourie, Vidia Naipaul and Salman Rushdie. When Balasaheb Thackeray told Time that he wanted to throw the Muslims into the Arabian Sea, I told him: ‘‘But Balasaheb, Muslims will swim back.’’ He laughed and said, ‘‘Yes, we all should live in peace.’’

• So you believe unity will finally replace the discord?

Yes. There’s no other option.