‘I’d have been happier if UPA had done better than NDA in the highway project’

The final explosion was when women protestors were raped by Uttar Pradesh police. As chairman of the statehood struggle committee, I saw the movement gather momentum, cutting across party lines. Apart from the Congress, everyone joined the movement; locally, the Congress was quiet, but opposed it at the national level.

With the NDA government, Uttarakhand came into being in 2000.

When the Congress government under N.D.Tewari came to power, we expected a great deal. But very little happened: there was low employment, low development. But he did bring in industry.

• COOMI KAPOOR: You said that during the five years of Congress rule in Uttarkhand, there was little progress — people felt they were better off as a part of Uttar Pradesh. But doesn’t development take place at a faster pace in smaller states? Hasn’t Uttarakhand benefited from this?

B.C. KHANDURI: That is the basic justification for creating small states. People say that by dividing larger states you created more problems, but I believe smaller states are better and easier for development and administration. I’ve found that it is easier: I know all the District Magistrates, I know a number of our junior officers also and police officers. So, conceptually, the people’s ability to reach the top levels of the state government is better compared to bigger states. But people’s expectations also increase; overnight, they expect everything.

• DEVYANI ONIAL: The question of Uttarakhand’s capital hasn’t yet been settled. Do you think it is practical to move to Gairsain?

B.C. KHANDURI: You’re asking me a difficult question and as a politician I should dodge it. However, a senior judge has been appointed to identify the most suitable place for the capital. He hasn’t been able to give a report. He’s supposed to submit it in April.

The BJP started by saying Gairsain should be the capital because of its proximity to both Garhwal and Kumaon. When we became a separate state, there was no place to go and the choice was between Nainital and Dehra Dun. Nainital had very little space for buildings; Dehra Dun offered some elbow room for expansion, so it was chosen. But we’re still looking for a place that will suit Garhwal and Kumaon. We also have to examine the geographical and geological feasibility: is Gairsain suitable for a state capital that will need railways, aerodromes, roads? If so, it will get preference.

• SHEKHAR GUPTA: That is the politically correct answer. What is the real answer?

B.C. KHANDURI: I feel we must have a place with easy accessibility. Dehra Dun is in one corner. If we could find the necessary conditions in a centrally located place, that would be better. However, over a period of time, Dehra Dun has developed a certain amount of infrastructure. To build totally new infrastructure would cost thousands of crores. So that is the problem. When the report comes, we hope to have a better idea.

• ANUBHUTI VISHNOI: You are the driving force behind the national highway project. What do you think of it now (that you are no longer in power at the Centre)? The perception is that there’s been a massive slowdown.

B.C. KHANDURI: To begin with the project went off very well. I feel it is a project that gives us infrastructure, but equally importantly, self-confidence. It enhanced our dignity and credibility internationally. When I took over as the union minister in charge, the talk was that this was a pipedream. But it went off well, and I always give credit to then prime minister, Atal Behari Vajpayee. But for his vision, daring, feeling for the nation, the project would have died in a year or so. He set me a target, gave me authority, and I was asked no questions.

With my army background, I did quite a bit of bulldozing, but there were serious problems: working out time schedules, acquiring land to make roads etc. A lot of shortcuts had to be found out. We had no contractors; the ones available didn’t have credibility. So we had to enter into joint ventures with international contractors. By the time I left the ministry, of the 103 projects more than 90 were solely under Indian contractors and the remaining were joint ventures. We imported a large quantity of state-of-the-art equipment — earth moving equipment — which was not available here and things speeded up.

We introduced bonuses and penalties: if a contractor finished six months in advance of the due date, he was rewarded with one per cent of the contract value for each month. That can be considerable when the contract is worth Rs 300-400 crore. Acquiring land happened in an interesting manner: once we identified the land, the contractors used to pay the advance to the landowners, telling us to pay them back when we had given them the money.

We reduced the time frame (for road making) from three-and-a-half years to two-and-a-half years. We also held meetings with every contractor and every consultant, once in two months. I would take up a stretch under construction and if there was any difficulty it was sorted out across the table.

I have enumerated the reasons for the success of the project, but those things are not happening any more. It’s a sad thing for me to say, but I’d have been happier if the UPA had done better than the NDA. But they had their own priorities.

• ZEENAT NAZIR: Is the obsession with the Setu Samudran Project hijacking the road project?

B.C. KHANDURI: The priorities are different now. Ours was roads; now it is the Setu Samudram.

• ZEENAT NAZIR: One of the planks on which you came to power was the anti-conversion law. Critics say you are trying to divert attention from issues like economic reform, attracting investment. What is your position?

B.C. KHANDURI: We haven’t passed the anti-conversion bill, though I would like to. I’m not against religion. Even the Supreme Court has spoken against forced conversion. A person who wants to convert is free to do so. We are against inducements, enticements. We have also banned cow slaughter. If you look after the cow, it can prove an economically viable way to make the country prosperous. Do you know the price of cow urine is higher than milk? There’s such a demand for it; other countries are using it so why should we have an inferiority complex just because the cow is a religious symbol here.

• S.M.A. KAZMI: I’m from Uttarakhand. We’re facing a severe power crisis although Uttarakhand is said to be a power state. Meanwhile, there’s an agitation called Save the River campaign and villagers are part of the agitation. Do you have any policy to make them stakeholders in such projects?

B.C. KHANDURI: The power position in Uttarakhand has been bad. As for hydel, we are supposed to have the highest potential in India. Somehow, a large number of contracts have been given, but hardly any of them has reached a state of completion. I am trying to do what I can.

A week ago, we issued our energy policy. We want to empower the local people to produce electricity and help them use it on their own. There are villages that need electricity, and we have a scheme whereby groups of villages can generate up to 100 KW and use it themselves. We’re hoping that more people will participate in the power projects now. As for the rivers, we have the Tehri dam project, which has given us power but also created a lot of problems. Personally, I’ve been against big dams. But even running river schemes in a place like Uttarakhand have problems: you have to hold the water, divert the water into a tunnel, take the tunnel downstream and somewhere get a head. The higher the head you get, the greater the power generation. But a higher head needs a longer tunnel. That’s where the clash occurs. If you’re going to run a river down a hill for 20-30 kilometres, the people are not going to accept it.

The problem is how to get an adequate head to run the turbines without putting the river into a very long tunnel? We have to find a via media for this.

• ZEENAT NAZIR: The chairman of NHAI has been replaced three times in the last six months. Do you think there should be a fixed tenure for a chairman of a body like NHAI?

B.C. KHANDURI: I think it’s ridiculous to change the top man so frequently. It will affect the work.

• AMITABH SINHA: The general elections are due next year. If BJP comes back to power, would you like to come back to the Centre and take charge of the road project or would you like to continue in Uttarakhand? Which is closer to your heart?

B.C. KHANDURI: I’m a soldier and I go where I am told to go and I do what I am told to do. I’ve been in uniform for 38 years and I don’t think I can change that. But certainly I feel very sad about the road sector. But I also have a personal interest in Uttarakhand.

• VIKAS DHOOT: You’ve started work on the extension of the Jolly Grant airport. What is its status?

B.C. KHANDURI: Private flights are allowed but not commercial ones. The infrastructure and other facilities need to be in place, the ATC building is still not there, It’s up to the central government to give the go ahead for commercial flights.

• VIKAS DHOOT: Any specific push being given to tourism?

B.C. KHANDURI: We should have a large number of helipads, at least one at all tourist spots. We’re looking for more places where helipads can be constructed, and aerodromes.

• VIKAS DHOOT: A question about commercial real estate. Since you’ve taken over, there seems to be a slump in the state. You’ve increased the circle rate several times, but more deals are not getting registered, the state is probably losing revenue. Is there a rationale for what you have done to circle rates?

B.C. KHANDURI: For industries land was given at a cheap rate because there was no industry. Tiwariji gave free land to a lot of people, but after a while it was misused. I found industrialists who had been given plots, and were supposed to start construction within the year, had not even started construction. Secondly, there are people who don’t do anything in the state, they manufacture elsewhere and package it here — they don’t function as an industry, they function as a packaging assembly. So suppose you produce five items, you bring one item here, package it and obtain concessions for five. The state gets nothing, the people get nothing, there is no industry or jobs. A per the arrangement with the Tiwari government, 70 per cent of the jobs in these industries were to go to local people. I found out that they were very cleverly outsourcing everything. So I cancelled allotments. Obviously, there was a commotion. But I have cleared the air with senior industrialists.

• ANUBHUTI VISHNOI: Recently, you increased the prize money for gallantry awards. The army is supposedly not very happy with that because they feel it demoralises personnel from other states where the prize money is less. They’ve said they’d like a uniform prize money structure. Comments, please.

B.C. KHANDURI: Firstly, it is not uniform in the country. Every state has its own norms. Secondly, in every household in Uttarakhand, a minimum of one or two members of the family — sometimes entire villages — are in the armed forces. I thought the prize money structure was very unreasonable. For example, a soldier gets the Param Veer Chakra, and received Rs 1,70,000. I made it Rs 25 lakh. Same with Ashok Chakra. It is humiliating for a soldier to receive that little respect.

(The transcript was prepared by Anushree Majumdar)