What led you to strike an alliance with Jagjivan Ram’s daughter and former Congress member Meira Kumar?It has been this country’s misfortune that whatever Dalit leaders have emerged haven’t got national leadership status. Even Jagjivan Ram and B.R. Ambedkar. Ambedkar worked for upliftment of Dalits in Maharashtra, but he was labelled a Mahar leader. Jagjivan Ram worked for constitutional rights of Scheduled Castes and reservations started under him, but he was also known as a leader of the Ravidas community.They say I’m a leader of the Paswans.This is not right for the Dalit leadership. Meira Kumar is like my elder sister. The main aim is samajik samikaran (social harmony). We want that SCs should be one caste. Dalits should be together and one force. I did this sammelan in Patna with Meira Kumar and this sent a message to those in the Scheduled Castes who didn’t want to ally with Meira or me. The barrier has been broken down.But doesn’t this boil down to vote bank politics?During the Mandal Commission agitation, reservation wasn’t going to benefit me since my community already had reservation, but I supported it. Right now there is a need for some leaders to come forward to bring together different groups. But there will always be criticism.UP CM Mayawati’s greatest innovation was combining Dalit and Muslim vote banks by rallying against those who demolished the Babri Masjid. Is fighting communalism on your agenda?I believe ideology is thicker then blood. I believe in social harmony. My mantra is that India is a garden and in this garden, all flowers should be tended to equally.Social justice irrespective of caste and religion should be the ideal. But unfortunately, caste is a reality. You can change your religion and political party, and the poor can become rich. But you cannot change your caste.In Bihar, you have also been wooing the bhumihars, who are disgruntled with the NDA since C.P. Thakur’s ouster as a Union minister.Bhumihars are not only against the NDA because of C.P. Thakur’s ouster but also because of the economic policies followed by the central leadership. It promised a clean administration but now is more corrupt then the Congress was. At the sammelan there were mostly Bhumihars and a lot of them have also joined us. They feel that Paswan is above being just a Dalit leader. Brahmins don’t hate me like they hate Mayawati.What about your efforts to win over the Muslims, and to project yourself as the third option?I don’t need to convince anybody about my secular credentials. Because of the BJP, the Muslims are with Laloo Yadav. And the Congress is with the RJD because of secularism. Now they have got a third option. The NDA in Bihar has no leader who can transfer votes.There are only two people who can transfer votes. One is Laloo Yadav and the second is Ram Vilas Paswan..The transferable votes are with the Dalits, Yadavs and Muslims. Muslims don’t love Laloo, they hate the BJP; and the upper castes are with the NDA because they hate Laloo Yadav. In today’s situation, if we get 20 per cent SC votes and 15 per cent Muslim, then that candidate will get 30 to 35 per cent votes and will be the winner.How do you defend, as Laloo Prasad Yadav put it, sitting in the lap of the BJP?I joined the NDA because of public pressure because Laloo Yadav and the RJD had to be ousted. And of course political considerations were also in favour. I made a blunder in joining the NDA but there was no option. And there is not just the one issue of communalism and secularism. I’m asking the Left and the Congress that they are welcome to fight communalism but there is also casteism.
