This edition of Express Adda held in Mumbai hosted Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman. In a discussion moderated by National Opinion Editor Vandita Mishra, Sitharaman spoke on being an outsider in Delhi, the civil-military relationship and modernising the Forces. On being an outsider in Delhi Delhi was not completely a new place for me but as a political worker, it was a new place. The opportunity was given but yes I was moving like a nomad, in all my friends’ places. It took me nearly two years of spokespersonship being a nomad in Delhi. There was a time when I had a little hesitation in my mind — after all you belong to a family which is alright with you doing all these things but after a point they started asking, where are you actually? Do you have a place? Read | Nirmala Sitharaman: Opposition trying to paint Modi govt anti-Dalit, it will not succeed On being India’s first woman Defence Minister I am thoroughly enjoying (being Defence Minister) because it’s so much of a challenge. Much to my surprise, not a moment have I been made to feel, ‘alright a woman, probably the prime minister wanted to make a token gesture’. The ease with which people have taken this thought of a woman minister has been a great strength for me and has made my job far easier. So, this narrative outside saying there is a glass ceiling that you have to break.none of that. On Defence not getting adequate funds The narrative which has built up in the last month essentially as a fallout of the (parliamentary) standing committee report.we need to read it in full to change this narrative. There were certain durations of time when decisions were not taken. As a result even if you had wonderful quantities of money, if you didn’t utilise it, if you have not taken decisions to spend it on capital goods, if your revenue purchases have all come to a standstill because some or other procedural headache is causing you to say that I do not want to tread in the path, of what use is fantastic allocation if you have not utilised it at all? After this government came in 2014, in the first few years, a lot procedures had to be simplified. A new procurement policy had to be brought in 2016. Subsequent to it, procurement has gone up rapidly. So I want this summary conclusion that defence is not given enough money and will it affect our preparedness, to be completely removed out of our heads. On 68 per cent of army equipment being vintage If 68 per cent is vintage, there is rapid replenishment meaning removing of old and vintage and coming up with modern. So, that is happening simultaneously. We are trying to change and modernise capacities.We have had an exercise where the three Forces and the coast guard have been told to reprioritise on what is up to date. On the effect of caution on decision-making That is why I want to tell you that in 2016 procurement policy has simplified the process, institutionalised and streamlined the decision-making process where you can cut down on time, where two things can happen simultaneously. That’s why I am happy to tell you, there is not one case is pending before the Defence Acquistion Council since this government has come. On Make in India in Defence It is a question of getting policies simplified, inviting people to invest. When you talk of Defence, the reason why it takes more time is to say which of those do you want to open up, which of three Forces are still not comfortable to opening up. There is a lot at stake in national security. And as a result, when you list something available for private sector investors abroad, it does take time. Now it is all falling in place. On civil-military relationship I respect the Forces.but civil services also have a contribution to make. They are there to bridge administration with Forces. They are critical and I give credit to them. I don’t claim to have done miracles in bridging it, but I have just said the two lines can go parallel. I make it sound simple, but that is one area I palpably felt each one was full of themselves and I was caught up between the two. On whether the Army has a veto on AFSPA A call on AFSPA (Armed Forces (Special Powers Act), with inputs from officers on ground, is a call that the Ministry of Defence takes. It is not a position of the Forces alone, it is our position, the position of the Government of India. There is no veto there. It is a very sensitive issue. That wedge, which is being drawn between positions of the civilian authorities and the Forces, is not right. It is a collective position. On the heating up of the LoC I would not agree with you when you say India is trying to keep the LoC hot. But we can’t also say we have to keep the LoC cool. We are finishing them off at the border. If that makes the border hot, so be it. We can’t allow them to come in and after that strategise on how to deal with it… which becomes terrorism on our land. So the policy is not to keep it hot or cold, it is more to make sure that it is timely, relevant on the ground, rather than allowing them to come in and determine the rules of the game. On the Doklam stand-off and the way forward The disengagement has happened. Each one of us has moved back. They to the north and we to the south. What they do further north is what is getting a lot of coverage. Post that, if they move… we have to keep a watch, be alert.Their misadventures are being addressed at the border, we’re sending them back peacefully. Without a bullet being fired. We are engaging with them. On a former Army chief’s RSS ties As a minister post his retirement if he (VK Singh) wears the uniform, I don’t think I will spend time talking about it. And who is the RSS? Have we noticed their role in nation building? Have we noticed their first responder approach whenever there is a national disaster? I think it’s time for the country to understand that we cannot go on with these cliches. Didn’t Nehru himself call them for Republic Day? On armed forces personnel seeking redressal in court I think the tendency, and I am not saying this negatively, to seek legal remedy, go to the court or tribunal, for every issue is also because there is this whole sense of decision-making being rigid, lack of transparency when there are complaints coming in, the army’s general court martial not being so transparent and so on. These are definite issues where the armed forces personnel themselves speak that some get left out, some others seem to have it easy. I am actually in dialogue with the Forces themselves to see how best we can loosen up and also make it more transparent. On protests over dilution of SC/ST Act Those promoting these agitations want the government to be seen as anti-Dalit. But sorry, we are not giving them the opportunity. We are with SC For those who want to make political capital out of a social guarantee given by our Constitution, I am really disappointed… that instead of fighting for (SC/ST) rights, they are building distrust… For the last 60 years, you (the Opposition) haven’t done anything for them. These decisions (changes in provisions of the SC/ST Act) are not of the government. The dilution in the Act would mean that a few benefits given to the Dalits, just to take their fight for justice a bit forward, will all go. We are not in favour. We will not dilute it. On the I&B Ministry’s circular on fake news Questions never stop. This government, if anything, has faced tonnes and tonnes of questions. We are continuously put on test… ‘Prove yourself in Delhi, Bihar, Assam… and now Karnataka’ I am not sure the ten years of UPA saw the government being questioned like this. Why would media lose trust with us? I thought you now have a lot more opportunities to question the government… During Kapil Sabil’s time (when (Section 66 A of the IT Act was brought in), none of us lost trust in the government. Rajiv Gandhi got a bhayankar kanoon (dreadful law, on defamation), no trust was lost. Now for everything, it is either this or ‘India doesn’t exist the next morning’. *** VOICE BANK Shaina NC BJP spokesperson and fashion designer When can we expect to see more women in the Forces, and more importantly, not as token but based on their competence? I think there’s enough thought already in favour of it. But why is it taking time? There are different cases which many of the short service commission women have taken to the courts. So it is going to have to be something where we have to make sure how we deal with these issues which are pending in the courts. Other than taking a call, yes we welcome women. So the process is consuming time, not the idea. ShubHada Rao Group president and Chief Economist, Yes Bank Did you have to prepare yourself differently when you transitioned from the Ministry of Commerce and Industry to the MoD? Secondly, what was your feeling when you were doing the sortie in Sukhoi? No, I didn’t have to change anything at all moving from commerce to defence. For Sukhoi, they prepare you so much for it, which is good. It was an exhilarating experience, I would consider it as one very memorable experience. If you were to ask me now, I would not want to miss that experience ever. Anant Goenka Executive Director, The Express Group We keep hearing about how bad the trust deficit was between the previous government and the Services. Was it as bad as we were made to believe? As I said, the civil-military relationship is always on a very, very gentle keel. It does take effort to keep it going. And it does take effort to give the confidence to both that they are critical for decision-making in the Ministry of Defence. I must credit both (Manohar) Parrikar and Arun Jaitley for having spent that kind of time and making sure that trust is strengthened. It is not difficult for me because they’ve laid the foundation. To what extent it had eroded is subjective. It may not be fair for me to comment but it’s good that it is now restored and not just restored, it is moving on an even keel. Dilip Mehta Businessman You spoke about terrorism in Pakistan. I was held hostage during 26 As Defence Minister, when do you think India will bring the perpetrators of the attack to book, and what is India’s action plan? We are making every effort at the international forum to isolate Pakistan and make the world understand that India has put up with this kind of neighbour for far too long — and each time we are doing it with credible evidence in hand. We are clearly saying that it is now becoming a global hub of terror sponsors. Both the External Affairs and the Ministry of Defence are working together. Our efforts are to make sure that Pakistan’s support to terror is completely cut off. In that, one of the things that we insist is to make sure that the perpetrators or the handlers of that particular horrible episode are brought to book. We are following up unrelentingly.
