Devendra Fadnavis: ‘Poaching is when you go after somebody… everybody in Cong, NCP wants to join BJP’

Yes, you can call it election campaign. I have been saying in my speeches this is a samvad. We are telling people what we have done and on the basis of our work, we are seeking a new mandate. For the first time in Maharashtra, you have a government which is accountable to people. We are the incumbent government and we have done this.

Have you also undertaken this because you are readying to fight 288 seats? Do sections of the BJP in Delhi want the party to go it alone in the 2019 state Assembly?

What I know is that at the top in Delhi and Maharashtra, there is no confusion. We will fight in alliance and very soon the details will be made public.

If you are so confident about winning why does the BJP need Shiv Sena?

BJP’s alliance with Shiv Sena is not a need-based alliance. It is a broad-based alliance, based on common ideology. We fought the elections together for the Lok Sabha elections, and we have decided to continue the alliance for the Vidhan Sabha elections. In 2014, for very few seats, we broke our alliance. But [neither of us] was happy. But we have understood, we have learnt a lot, that we should stay together. In alliances, sometimes you gain, sometimes you have to sacrifice something

Will you sacrifice the Chief Ministership?

The talk about the chief minister’s position is by unauthorised people. What has been agreed is known to me, Amitbhai and Uddhavji. At an appropriate time, you will also come to know about that. I have already said in Vidhan Sabha, that I am coming back as chief minister. There should be no doubt

What about sharing the Chief Ministership for 2.5 years of the tenure?

At this juncture, there is no issue about who will be CM.

“The talk about the chief minister’s position is by unauthorised people. What has been agreed is known to me, Amitbhai and Uddhavji”, Fadnavis said. 

It will be from BJP and it’s you?

It is clear. I must say that in a democracy we should leave it to people. So if we have done good job, which I think we have, people will elect us again. The BJP parliamentary board under the leadership of Prime Minister Narendra Modi is empowered to choose the Chief Minister. However, the political situation is such that they will choose me.

If BJP is so confident, why do you need to poach people from Congress and NCP?

First of all, it is not poaching. Poaching is when you go after somebody. We don’t go after them. They are coming to us. As of now, as I have understood, everybody and anybody in Congress and NCP wants to join BJP. People have understood that under the leadership of Modi ji, this party is a futuristic party, this government will lead the country to a bright future. In Marathi we say Vinasha kale viprit buddhi. Let me tell you that the Congress stand, or NCP’s stand on Article 370 is such now that even the ordinary karyakarta does not want to remain in Congress.

Okay, they want to join, but why do you want to take them?

We have decided we have an open door policy for karyakartas, but for leaders, we have a filtration policy where we will analyse whether we need them, whether they are broad-based, whether they will fit into our party, whether they will stay with our ideology. On all those parameters . So as of now, we have taken only four people.

What about charges of dirty tricks, that you are using pressure tactics against opposition members who do not wish to join?

I have announced that those people against whom ED or any other inquiry is going on, I will not allow them in BJP. All the four people we inducted have no case registered against them. There is no inquiry against them.

The BJP government is accused of misusing investigating agencies and intimidating political rivals?

It’s absolutely baseless. There is no political vendetta. All the decisions are directives from courts. Take a case of NCP’s Ajit Pawar, The High Court issued the order last week in Maharashtra State Cooperative Bank case. Same was the case against Pawar in irrigation scam in past.

This open-door policy must also be causing unrest within the BJP?

Only for karyakartas we have an open-door policy. Not for leaders. There is no question of any unrest within BJP as people inducted in party from Congress and NCP do not exceed 2 to 3 per cent. Almost 97 per cent are original BJP. By and large, people in BJP have accepted that the party needs people, we want to build our party, we want to expand and strengthen our party. We can’t be complacent.

In your public rallies, you invoke Prime Minister Modi a lot. But isn’t it your own leadership that matters in a state election?

Prime Minister Narendra Modi is our leader and we take pride in mentioning about his achievements. And why shouldn’t we? Moreover, how can one segregate welfare schemes which are jointly by the Centre and the state? Take the example of Pradhan Mantri Awas Yojana. PM announced PMAY. Maharashtra is at No 2 two in PMAY. Why shouldn’t we take credit? Same is with all other schemes. In all schemes announced by Prime Minister, we are either No 1 or No 2.

So are you going to campaign for the elections on Prime Minister Modi’s name?

In my entire speech, we mention all the achievements of our state. And we also mention what we have done under the leadership of PM.

On Kashmir issue, Fadnavis says the country has got a strong government with a strong will and when the country is getting stronger, let us make Maharashtra strong an prosperous.

Another issue which you mention is Kashmir? Do you think that has place in a state election? Do you think people care about this in a state election?

Yes they do and why shouldn’t they? Kashmir is an integral part of India. Every single Indian used to feel that Kashmir should be totally integrated with country. The largest applause I get is when I mention article 370. A person may not go to Kashmir. But every person feels that Kashmir should be integral part of the country.

So is Kashmir going to be a big platform for you in this election?

What we are saying is the country has got a strong government with strong will. And when the country is getting stronger, let us make Maharashtra strong an prosperous. That’s my theme – Rashtra, and Maharashtra. Yes, it is one of the platforms of this election. Our theme has always been Vikas and Rashtrawad.

In the 2019 Lok Sabha elections Narendra Modi was the face of BJP and Sena in Maharashtra. In the 2019 state polls, is Devendra Fadnavis going to be the face of both BJP as well as Sena?

Normally when there is an alliance, each party has their own leader. So it will be overstatement to say I will also be leading the Shiv Sena. But as a chief minister, I am CM of both BJP and Shiv Sena. Because of coalition government, all the achievements of my government, Shiv Sena also has a share.

How would you explain the drought in the state despite the flagship project Jalyukta Shivar? There are 151 talukas that undertook the project and are still have crippling shortages. Would you say the programme failed? Does it call for review of the scheme or modifcations?

In Jalyukta Shivar, we create water storage structures. First we do the water budgeting, based on that we assess what is the rainfall, what is the deficit, how much water we need to conserve and scientifically we treat the watershed. We create that much storages for water. This we have done in 19,000 villages. And by year-end, it will be completed in 23,000 villages. What is the effect? That the agriculture productivity of Maharashtra in 2012-13 when rainfall was 109 per cent, if you compare that with agriculture productivity of 2017-18 when rainfall was just 70 per cent, it is the same. In 2016-17, which was the only non-drought year, the rainfall was 90 per cent, we have achieved agriculture productivity that was highest in the history of Maharashtra. Now, these are outcomes of Jalyukta Shivar. However, if there are no rains, the water storages will not get filled. Out of five years (under our government), the state faced drought in four years.

There was a PIL filed in court on Jalyukta Shivar. As a result, a committee comprising experts from IIT and a former chief secretary and water management experts, a multi-disciplinary team conducted a study and submitted a report. It has acknowledged that it has paid off very well. The water table has come up. It has given productive irrigation to the farmers at the time of distress. When there is a huge gap of 30 days between two rainy days, at the most crops can survive 12 to 15 days. This protective irrigation has been saving the crops. So I think it has been hugely successful. But now we have to go beyond that. Due to climate change, if out of five years, four years are going to be drought years, we need to think in a different way, and we have already done that.

The country is also going through a severe economic downturn and Maharashtra, as the top industrial state, is feeling the pinch of lay-offs, factories closing down and unemployment. Isn’t this a huge issue for Maharashtra?

Unemployment will always be the biggest issue. We are in a demographic phase where every year we are adding to our workforce. So major focal point will be unemployment. At the same time as far as Maharashtra is concerned, if you look at EPFO records or the Niti Aayog report, it has said Maharashtra has contributed 25 per cent to the entire employment that is created in the country in three years. Having said that, I totally agree that due to the global slowdown… we are taking some hit. I would not say en masse lay-offs are happening. But yes, it is a concern and certain businesses have also expressed their concern they will not be able to run their businesses with this much of manpower.

The major impact was in the automobile sector. Maharashtra accounts for 40 per cent of the automobile sector. So it is our area of concern. I also understood what are their concerns, and sent them to Nirmala ji. (Finance Minister Nirmala Sitharaman). She held direct conversations with the automobile industry. Their major concern was that the demand had come down as we were graduating from BS 3 to 4 to 5 to 6. There was a fear among people that in this transition, if their vehicle goes off road after they buy it, what would they do? And all these auto companies are offering BS 5 or BS 4. So, a huge stock was there, a fear was there, and the demand was supressed, and the people were waiting that new rules would come. But with the announcement by Nirmalaji, that till 2020 you can sell them and they will be good for the entire period of registration, I think the demand should go up now.

CM Devendra Fadnavis at Warora during his Mahajanadesh yatra.

Second crisis was in the real estate industry. Especially, Mumbai estate is such that it has an effect on entire India’s economy. So, a few decisions were taken about GST last time by Centre. Our government also took a few decisions. With a sunset clause of two years, we have brought down all premiums and we have phased out premiums, we have given them moratorium on paying interest, we have brought down the interest rates. At least that should take care. And one thing, in Mumbai, those who are building affordable houses are able to sell. But those who are have been creating premium stock, there is no demand for that. For the last three years, I have been telling the entire real estate community to go for affordable houses. There is an aspirational population in Mumbai. In Mumbai, even an affordable house is not less than Rs 1 crore or Rs 70 lakh or Rs 50 lakh.

Now they have realised. Secondly, in MMR region, we have approved a new scheme to build 5 lakh houses under the Pradhan Mantri Awas Yojana. There’s a huge demand.

The third crisis is about credit and mostly it is because of NBFCs. In the retail sector, 70 per cent of the credit comes from NBFCs. And the banks, who are the biggest lenders to NBFCs, stopped lending to them. Entire cycle came into turmoil. Now with the remonetisation and all the incentives given to the banks, they will be able to fund the NBFCs.

After IBC (Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code), banks started taking action. If there were one or two defaults, banks started getting activated. Then government told the banks, don’t be so strict, give some space. Some amendments were done [to the IBC Act]. In this process of cleaning, there has been a fear in the minds of banks because so many scams were getting unearthed. So bankers started reacting to it. And they literally stopped credit. Government has to act. But government has limited role to act. It is the RBI which has to act. I would go overboard and say that those measures RBI should have taken in between. Now with the new governor, RBI has been very proactive. I will not blame any governor but RBI was very protective. You are a regulator, but that does not mean that you regulate for the worse. You have to react to a situation. You are also our prime bank, our central bank. So I think RBI should have counselled the banks and should have told them that there is no situation they should fear. Now with this remonetisation, and all the efforts the finance minister has taken, banks have started lending again.

At SLBC meetings, you often talked tough expressing your displeasure over functioning of banks when it comes to extending farm loans.

I cannot sit quiet at SLBC meetings. There are few people and few banks which believe that if they give loans to farmers, it is going out of their personal accounts. They try to find all the ways and means to avoid lending to farmers. I cannot sit back and tell them, you are good, you are saving the country’s money. I have to be harsh on them. The SLBC is meant for that. In that forum, I have been very harsh. It is because of that they finally started lending. In most branches, they have one or two employees. They don’t post additional staff at the time when farmers come for credit. And if tomorrow, they have to lend to a thousand farmers, they start sending them back. I will not tolerate. Things have come on track now. I am still not totally satisfied. At the same time, I have been talking to the finance ministers, as well as in the SLBC, the RBI deputy governor. So I have been pointing out to RBI deputy governor that it is you who have to act on this, not me.

Chief Minister Devendra Fadnavis at the rally in Nanded. (Express)

There are concerns that the RBI autonomy is being undermined, that it is turning into an arm of the government. This and the government’s actions around Article 370 have given rise to fears of increasing centralisation of powers by a government with a big majority…

A few intellectuals like to debate and gossip on this. Indian democracy is very vibrant. The Constitution is so strong, you cannot centralise. And even the mindset of Indian is such …This is not Pakistan. It is India. On what basis can you say that RBI is an arm of government…has there been any change in the guideline, in any law, or rules? If the RBI Governor does not look at the situation, what is happening in country, and says no, he says will not allow, he is a great Governor. And if a governor of RBI rises to the occasion and says yes, if the country needs something, I am going to do that, then he is arm of government? I don’t agree at all. In fact, RBI has been over-protective, and that has actually taken a toll on our growth rate.

What about the demotion of J&K into UTs? Isn’t that cause for concern among states?

I don’t think there is any fear. In Indian political history, whosoever has abused power has been thrown out by people. Indira ji did during Emergency. She was thrown out. Our high courts and Supreme Court have shown many times that if a decision is not right, or is not Constitutional, they have struck down such decisions. At least this move for J&K, every single person in every state, barring 2 to 3 per cent people, have supported it. Extraordinary situation requires extraordinary solutions. That does not mean every time you will use that extraordinary solution.

Wasn’t the reservation for a powerful community like the Marathas an openly cynical ploy for vote consolidation? Doesn’t it open up demands in other states such as Rajasthan and Haryana where also powerful communities are seeking quotas?

The reservation to Maratha by our government has both constitutional and legal validity. The State Backward Class Commission report mentions quantifiable data to establish social, and educational backwardness of Marathas. In Maharashtra, only 50 Maratha families controlled the political power. The High Court has upheld government’s decision. If it was not constitutional and legally valid, the court would have struck it down.

Do you have ambitions of moving to Delhi?

I am a loyal soldier of party. If my party says go to Delhi, I will be happy. If party says go and work in Nagpur, I will be happy. Whatever I have achieved, I am very content and happy. My party has offered me more than what I deserved.