Javed Akhtar looks back at the Sholay script he wrote with Salim Khan: ‘Its dialogues are used in stand-up comedies even today’

There is a certain arrogance in the protagonists Jai and Veeru. Is it an extension of the confidence that your writing partner Salim Khan and you (known as Salim-Javed) had about yourselves?

First of all, I have not seen modest heroes in mainstream cinema. They are generally very confident people. That’s why they are heroes. Maybe, you notice a writer in the writing, a painter in the painting, a musician in his composition. They are not in watertight compartments. If you think that this is from the creators’ own personality, it is not unusual.

Javed Akhtar, who wrote the classic with Salim Khan (Photo: Express Archive)

Is it some kind of ‘destiny’ that so many things fell into place and made Sholay iconic?

‘Destiny’ is not a very nice word because it implies something was preordained. As if it was programmed like this. I don’t believe in that at all. I believe life is random, things happen, different patterns are made, then they break. Some patterns are good, some patterns are not that good. Sholay is a good example of this occurrence. When we were writing the script, we didn’t have the faintest idea, believe me, that it could become so big. We just took a storyline and we started working on it. As we progressed and the screenplay came into focus, we realised that there are more than two or three characters that are very important, and some important actors can be signed for it. It was not planned as a multi-starrer at all. Fortunately, we had a producer who was larger than life, Mr GP Sippy. He was the one who decided that it should be made in 70 mm and have a stereophonic soundtrack. When Sholay was being shot in Ramanagara (in Karnataka), it had become an industry in itself. There were so many factories and workshops, which were making gadgets and other things for the picture.

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How closely did you work with its director, Ramesh Sippy?

There are only two directors with whom Salim-Javed worked very closely – Ramesh Sippy and Yash Chopra. Ramesh Sippy and we were a close-knit team. The whole script was pre-written, discussed and edited. The whole script was ready with dialogues, except for one scene in which Dharmendraji climbs up the tank and threatens to jump. After the script was written, Ramesh Sippy wisely pointed out that Dharmendraji is too big a star and in the second half, we have to highlight him, otherwise, his fans will be disappointed. The water tank sequence was written much later, perhaps on the day before its shooting.

Is there any particular sequence that was challenging to write?

On the contrary, I’ve written so many scripts but the character of Gabbar Singh will be the one I enjoyed writing the most. With Gabbar, I was discovering my own vocabulary because we had decided that we’ll give him a different style of talking than the rest of the characters in the film. So, his vocabulary had a slight touch of Awadhi and his style of speaking was different too. I remember I used to get excited and think: ‘Alright, let me finish these two scenes and after that, there is a scene with Gabbar. ‘Let me see what Gabbar says now.’ This doesn’t happen every time.

The film is 204-minute long. Did you at any point feel that the canvas was becoming too big?

Someone had once said that a film’s length should be determined by how long it retains the audience’s interest. When you watch movies like Gone With the Wind (1939), which is almost four hours long, The Godfather, or Hum Aapke Hai Koun…! (1994) you do not feel the length.

What made even the small characters of Sholay timeless?

I wish I knew it. If you find out, do call me and tell me, because I would like to do it again. There are some people, I have heard on YouTube, who say that Sholay is not a great film. Maybe, it is not and I have no idea what the definition of a great film is. The fact is, even today, a minor character from Sholay, who has uttered three words, or who just stood there, is used in stand-up comedies. He is referred to in other films’ dialogues. He has even become the reference in political speeches. People use their lines such as ‘Tera kya hoga, Kaliya’; ‘Arre o Samba’; and ‘Poore pachaas hazaar’. When you mention ‘mausi said this’, everybody will know which mausi you are talking about.

The reaction to Sholay when it released was tepid. How did you react to that?

When the film was released, the general opinion in the industry, on the basis of the reviews, was that the film had failed. However, we, Salim sahab and I, were confident. I remember, perhaps it was the third day after its release, that GP Sippy, Ramesh Sippy and Amitabh Bachchan, came to my home in Bandra. They said that certain scenes had to be rewritten and re-shot because the film had bombed. Salim sahab and I said: ‘Don’t worry, it cannot fail.’ They said it had already flopped. At that time Mera Gaon Mera Desh (1971) was a major hit. So, I asked Ramesh Sippy how much business it did. He said Rs 50 lakh per territory. So I said in that case, don’t you think Sholay would earn Rs 1 crore (per territory). We put our money where our mouth was. That week in Screen, Film Information and Trade Guide, we gave a full-page ad which said: ‘We, Salim and Javed, guarantee that Sholay will do more than Rs 1 crore in every major territory.’ Although we were proved wrong because it earned more than Rs 3 crore.

Once Sholay became such a big hit, what was the mood like?

For a very long time, the film industry could not accept the fact that it was a hit. I don’t want to embarrass people and take their names, but there were many big producers and directors who said the film was not running and GP Sippy was buying the tickets and throwing them away. They gave several reasons for its failure such as it has taken all the biggest stars on one side and a newcomer (Amjad Khan) as a villain as well as how it did not cater to women.

Amjad Khan, who made Gabbar Singh a villain whose popularity remains undiminished. (Photo: Express Archive)

What makes Gabbar Singh such a great screen villain?

Even on paper, when the film was not made, there was something about Gabbar’s character that would fascinate people. When Amitabh Bachchan and Sanjeev Kumar heard the script, separately, both of them wanted to play Gabbar. They are sharp actors and they saw the possibility of a great performance. Fortunately, we got Amjad Khan sahab, who did a commendable job and the rest is history.

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Is it Gabbar’s pure villainy that worked or is it his dialogue and demeanour?

It was not like Gabbar had an unhappy childhood. Nothing (no backstory). That’s why he became unadulterated, pure evil. Sometimes I wonder why he was extremely popular among children. Gabbar ki pasand (Gabbar’s favourite) biscuits were sold. Why? You see, if you take children to a zoo, and tell them: ‘Children, on this side you have beautiful, fascinating birds, and here we have, a man-eating tiger, who was captured last week’. Which side do you think the children will run to? They will go to see this man-eater. When you see someone who is the law unto himself and doesn’t care for anything, somewhere, however evil he may be, you admire his freedom. Gabbar has no sense of guilt. He’s so proud of his wickedness and lives happily. Also, Gabbar, Shakaal (in Shaan) and Mogambo (in Mr India) — these three successful villains have one thing in common. They are not lecherous. You don’t respect a villain who is lecherous.

Dharmendra recently called ‘the coin’ the real hero of the film. How did you come up with the idea of the coin as the plot device?

I’ll give this credit to Salim sahab. The basic storyline is also his idea.

Sholay had the right mix of all emotions — romance, tragedy, comedy, everything. Do you think it can be achieved only when you have absolute control over your craft?

Maybe. There are two aspects of creativity. One is about fantasy, imagination, dream, emotion and passion. On the other side, there is craft. Now, craft is totally cold-blooded, objective, surgical and mathematical. These are the things that are going in opposite directions but art works along these two contradictions. Salim-Javed brought a new sensibility in screenplay writing in India and the craft was impeccable. Our screenplays were so tight that every scene and dialogue would carry their story forward and hold the attention of the audience, except for a couple of films like Immaan Dharam (1977).

As writing partners, Salim-Javed were at the forefront of filmmaking. Why are writers not given that kind of respect today?

Respect is not given to anybody on a platter. People say they give respect to actors. Do they give respect to every actor? They give respect to the actors who are successful. If you are proving yourself again and again, whatever you are, you will get respect. You won’t be able to prove yourself in one film. Work with different units, directors, producers and actors. If you become some kind of a guarantee for the success of their project, why would they not respect you? It takes at least three big films for people to start noticing you. It takes time and you have to earn it.

Is there something that the new breed of filmmakers or writers can learn from Sholay and the story of its extraordinary success?

Unfortunately, some people have decided that either you can be interesting or sensible. They don’t think that these two aspects can be brought together. So, today, we are not making films that connoisseurs will appreciate and commoners will also say: ‘Wow, I enjoyed watching it’. Our (Salim-Javed) achievement was that we were appreciated by both sections.