‘The system should capture who is travelling how and prompt action should be taken against violators’

Infrastructure brings discipline. We need to restructure the things that have been decided in the past for instance we need to design the road in such a way that people could switch from extreme right to the left. Road-surface cracking should not create friction that will result in tires bursting. The system should capture who’s travelling how and in which lane and prompt action should be taken against those violators. There needs to be more comprehensive solutions and this starts with the skills and the driving culture that exists on the roads. We do not have a driving culture. One approaches the RTO to seek the licences, but there are some cases where they don’t even go through a driving school or go to the office but yet get a license. I am going to change that. For the learners’ licence there will be a test and answers will have to be given on the spot. And I’m going to monitor how many candidates have passed and how many have failed before issuing  the final licence. Otherwise, if its 100 per cent that means you are not evaluating properly.You cannot have 100 per  cent efficient drivers, every time.

Zeeshan Sheikh: The catch is that if you go to an RTO, you’re more certain to pass the test.

Earlier, everyone had to go through an agent. Now, a new way has started. You just need to seek an appointment with the concerned RTO and then go. That way, you do not need to go through an agent. We are trying to install a system in place to make all this mechanised. One such system has been installed at Baramati RTO. Where the applicant is taken to the car on the track. That vehicle has cameras with sensors that declare if he or she has cleared or not. I do not want to name the institute but 55 per cent of those drivers failed. Now we will be extending this project all over the state. But, for learning licence you ought to clear your exam first on the computer. I am supposed to stand before a council where a question will be asked and four options will be provided on the screen.

Tabassum Bangarwala: You’ve said that there are 200 deaths per one lakh vehicles that we have as compared to the US where the vehicular density is more and the deaths are subsequently less. What steps are you taking against those drivers who already have licences, to contain the number of deaths?

Maharashtra has probably around 2.3 crore drivers. Can you imagine training 2.3 crore people? To send a signal that this particular way is wrong, and now you have to be this way? We have still not thought about what to do with the existing ones, but definitely there will be some sort of training sessions. To begin with, it would be for public transport. And then there is the enforcement. Under the new law, it is proposed that fines should be as high as Rs 10,000 to Rs 15,000. So every time you take your car out, you have to think about shelling out Rs 15,000 if you commit an offence. You will be cautious. Secondly, you will get points for every offence you commit. And after the fifth offence your licence will be cancelled. And it would not be the case that if your licence is cancelled here, it will work elsewhere. It will be biometrically registered, so it is just one license. This has not come into effect until now. It is a new statute.

Zeeshan Sheikh: Even the new draft law seemed slightly arbitrary. If there is an offence it would ensure that my licence gets cancelled along with a fine of Rs 10,000, and for the next three months your license would be suspended and everything would be in the hands of the local policemen.

This is half the story. It is going to be more comprehensive. At one end there is a fine of Rs 15,000 or Rs 20,000. On the other hand, the cop will note down your car’s number and go to the RTO and check who the owner is. This whole process will definitely take time. That number plate itself would have some kind of an identification. If the cops have a gadget with them, they would immediately know who that person is. The offender would then be given a message that a certain amount has been deducted and only then would he be careful. In Germany, people are mortally scared and this is based on the same system. It creates some kind of responsibility on the person who is driving.

Shubhangi Khapre: Are you trying to get rid of the agents? Is this the beginning of the phasing-out of agents?

Why do we need agents between the government and the people?  We don’t have a count of the number of agents because they are not registered. Even then, the whole system is riddled with agents all across the state. When I joined, I visited many RTOs and myself caught one agent and handed him over to the police. But I think the system supported agents, for various reasons. But it is not needed.

Shubhangi Khapre: But from what I gather, in the absence of enough licensed motor-training schools, you have several private motor-training schools and therefore the agents. So it is like a chain. So if you’re demolishing agents and private schools, obviously you need to have some system in place?

Even today, I don’t think there is any lack of driving schools in the state. People do not go to driving schools thinking why go to driving schools simply to get licences? Say for example, earlier there used to be only government medical colleges, and those medical colleges used to bring out doctors. Today, even private medical colleges and universities are there. And they are treating patients with equal efficiency. Tomorrow it could so happen that private institutions could also award diploma in driving. And that by taking that diploma, you could get a licence online without even going to an RTO. New law provides for all such initiatives. So these driving schools will be more robust, more responsible and there will be finality in everything.

Shaji Vikraman: Some states have managed these touts well. They have put up CCTV cameras inside the RTOs, which has been a huge success in a couple of cases.

My experience with CCTV cameras is not good. Because everyone knows that there is a camera, whatever hanky- panky is to be done can be done outside the RTO. I had installed cameras at Octroi-nakas when I was a municipal commissioner but malpractices still used to go on. The best thing is for people to have ease in getting services, it should be technologically enabled and facilitated on its own.

Kavitha Iyer: Would you say that when the fleet cabs began, when the policy was drawn up, there were some gaps in planning 10 years or 15 years ahead? Because I don’t think that when the fleet cab policies were being designed, anyone ever imagined that aggregators would come up.

There is a fleet cab policy. And there is no disconnect between the long term thinking and what actually happens. But in fleet cab, permits are needed, this is just like the ‘kaali-peeli’, where the operator has a permit, he operates and because of permit he has to get a badge and he knows the driver. But this app-based service is completely new. He is not a fleet owner, he doesn’t invest a single rupee. He only collects passengers here and there.

Shubhangi Khapre: You’ve started a crackdown on autorickshaws but what kind of monitoring mechanism do we have? They work fine in presence of vigilance but not otherwise. So what is being done about the mismatch?

Firstly, they were granted permits and badges on conditions of non-refusal. That is the law. I am trying to stop that culture of refusal to ply and reorient it. Secondly, there is also a provision that drivers can refuse, but it is conditional. He has to indicate that he is not available. As for enforcement, I have a paltry staff in Mumbai, and all over the state for that matter— maybe 1,100 in all.

Kavitha Iyer: Is this going to regulate heavy transport vehicles in narrow roads, because they seem to cause the most traffic chaos in the city? It appears that they seem to be everywhere in the city and there is no time restriction for them or any method to regulate what roads they can take or not.

This is a coordinated function of the municipal authorities and the police. Both parties have to sit down and figure out which are the areas that require regulation. And that starts with city planning, that which roads should have shops, which road should not have shops. It starts from there. Then they have to issue a notification and they have to manage. The issue is again about implementation.

Kavitha Iyer: At the level of the transport commissioner there is no law regarding where higher tonnage vehicles may or may not travel?

No, it is jointly managed by the municipal corporation and the road traffic police. My area is that if a vehicle carries more than 15 tons. This is also the reason for major corruption in the transport department in the entire country. This would affect the public for two reason. The expenditure that public shells out. If this vehicle is supposed to carry 15 tons, the road will be broken. It will require public side expenditure to repair this. We are sleeping. Secondly, accident rate is more with lagged break-effect timings for heavy vehicles. We have 20 checkposts to keep track of it.

Just recently, I had been to one of the check posts on Gujarat border. I found violation and corruption even there.

Ruhi Bhasin: Union ministry has been emphasising on restricting registration as steps towards implementation congestion tax. Or you have areas where you charge a higher rate so that people park there. This could help the situation.

Municipal authority is there. The on-road management lies with the police. I don’t even have 100 officers in the city but they have 4,500 cops to manage the city. The parties have to come together and manage one-way to check on where to take parking fees and where not to. Near Flora Fountain where Pasricha was the DCP traffic what kind of ruckus used to be there. Now after 20 years also it is moving so good. So it is the local management and with technology it could be much easier, but that has to be used, the issue whether we are sensitive to do this or not.

Shubhangi Khapre: IS there a way to regulate the licences and permits given to taxis? If a licence is given to one, Three to four others who are not registered are also riding the taxis. This is done to “facilitate the migrants”.

There are two things. Whether to have adequate number of taxis in the city and therefore we would need as many drivers. There is also the issue of employment and unemployment problems. First, they have to acquire licenses which is not very difficult, secondly, he has to be 8th pass or 10th pass. Moreover, you need and experience of driving for one year. Most importantly, you have to be a resident of this state for 15 years. The point of this is that his antecedents are known to the local police. He is also required to know the topography and geography of the area. If these are not enforced then there is an issue. Law does not prohibit two people using the same permit for a taxi.

Zeeshan Shaikh: The new act says something about  an integrated helpline for accident victims.

It is going to be at the national level and comprehensive and it will involve medical services by municipal hospitals, private doctors, police and everyone else including the transport department. The emergency services are going to be rendered immediately.

Shaji Vikraman: Are there any other policy changes that you can suggest even if you are a regulator?

I am doing it as part of my suggestions to the current bill and I find that most of the point I have thought about are already there. It is a huge law.

(Transcribed by Gautam S Mengle, Rohit Alok, Aamir Khan and Meghna Yelluru )