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At a recent Adda in Mumbai, filmmaker Karan Johar spoke on the film industry facing trolling, viewers returning to theatres and creative people being fearless. He was in conversation with Anant Goenka, Executive Director, The Indian Express Group, and Shubhra Gupta, Film Critic, The Indian Express.
On the changing landscape of romance
The evolution of love is evident through the repertoire of cinema. Love stories in the ’70s and ’80s were always about parental conflict. I am not saying that societal pressure doesn’t exist, but there is a large section that enjoys independence of choice and opinion that has now penetrated the zone of love. If you show parental conflict, there will be a large section of people that it may not resonate with, because the men and women of today make their own decisions.
On receiving appreciation for Rocky Aur Rani Kii Prem Kahaani
The environment in our industry has been kind of turbulent and I hadn’t directed a film in seven years. Plus, the last three years were not easy on me or the industry. There was a lot of virtual negativity. All that had built a ball of anxiety within me, which I actually hadn’t addressed. I had brushed a lot under the carpet because I wanted to appear resilient not only to my family but also to my company. It all just came out in the week of the film’s release — the anxiety and the panic attacks. It’s gonna take a while before this film leaves my system because I hadn’t realised how stressful it was for me. Even though failure is as critical as success in anyone’s journey — and I’ve seen that up close and personal — this particular time I felt I couldn’t afford to fail. I’d set that bar for myself, which is wrong.
There was so much negativity that was surrounding me and so much of it was unjustified and inauthentic. People say things on television, Twitter or other social media loosely, they make judgments about you, but they don’t realise the impact it can have on those at the receiving end. This film, eventually, reached a stage where it became a make or break situation for me, in my own head.
On highlighting individuality
I was raised by progressive parents. My father was a very simple Punjabi man with strong middle-class values and my mother was Convent-educated and spoke English words I didn’t understand. But they gave me the freedom to be the way I was. Everyone else grew up on the pop culture of Western music — Madonna, George Michael and Michael Jackson. I grew up on Lata Mangeshkar, Asha Bhosle, Mohammed Rafi, Kishore Kumar. I sang those songs loudly in a tone-deaf voice. I danced to those songs. My father would think it was great and he would ask me to dance in front of his friends because he thought I was expressing myself. The other kids in my school though, or in my neighbourhood, my building, weren’t exactly that welcoming to this kind of a personality. The word ‘pansy’ was used predominantly in the ’80s… I couldn’t handle this term that was thrown at me. It was traumatising. So this film is a lot of me rebelling, not only about my childhood, but also what had happened in the last couple of years. This was a way of saying nothing else matters but your individuality, what you stand for and what you are raised to be.
On the commercial impact of trolling
I was made to believe that there can be (an impact), because a lot of what we had put out in the last three years was on digital, barring a few films, including Jugjugg Jeeyo. Had Rocky Aur Rani Kii Prem Kahaani failed, then there would have been a million fingers pointing at you and saying, ‘See, there is an impact’. Now, you realise that it’s all virtual and it means nothing. But you have to be strong enough not to be affected.
On Bollywood creating the recent box-office buzz
We’ve had bad years in the past, we were having another one or two bad years. It doesn’t mean ‘boycott Bollywood’, ‘they’re dead, the South is taking over’. The South is great. Firstly, we have to know that they are four different kinds of cinema — Tamil, Telugu, Malayalam and Kannada, catering to different audiences and doing it in their own way with super conviction. So, I have a lot of respect for them, but I also have a lot of respect for the storytellers that we have in our cinema. Of course, Gadar 2 has blown everyone’s brains away because it was a film that was hugely successful in 2001 and now in 2023, it’s breaking every record. All these movies (Pathaan, OMG2, Jailor) that have done well are riding on one strong quality and that is core conviction. Everyone’s making personable films that appeal to their sensibilities. More of that in the future and we’ll be riding this wave every year.
On formulaic fare
There’s nothing more formulaic than Mission Impossible. They’ve made the same thing eight times. And we applaud their visuals and action. But when the same thing happens in Hindi cinema, we don’t realise that there’s a lot of power to the formula. Why is it a cliche? Because it works again and again. You just have to repackage, redesign, reinvent and come with a lot of conviction and you’ll pull it off. Pathaan to me was a joyride because it was great to see these movie stars being movie stars. In my movie, I wanted to have that snow song (Tum Kya Mile). I love Sridevi in Chandni (1989) and Rekha in Silsila (1981). I had to put Alia (Bhatt) in chiffon saris because it was my childhood dream to shoot a love song like that in Kashmir. This doesn’t come from a space of formula. It comes from a space of pure love for Indian cinema.
On whether Indian cinema is experimenting
It’s still happening. OMG 2 is an experiment. Akshay Kumar is in a strong supporting role, talking about sex education. It’s a brave film to make in the mainstream. In my film, you have a man doing Kathak. It’s not that we are saving all the risque, or the off-the-mainstream content, just for OTT platforms. Indian cinema is taking very brave steps. It’s all going to eventually not only just change the fabric of our mainstream cinema, but also empower us in so many ways.
On whether OTT is a threat to cinema
Initially, when it began, everybody was saying OTT content is a threat to cinema. I don’t think that’s true at all. Firstly, let’s put that out there. In fact, one is empowering the other. The writers are empowered on streaming platforms because it’s a writer’s medium. We, in cinema, are drawing from that pool of writers. Therefore, our cinema will get better.
What has now changed is that the viewers, who were comfortable watching content at their homes for two-three years, have realised that they have to go back to the cinema because they are missing the feeling of community. Be it Pathaan, Rocky Aur Rani…, Gadar 2 or OMG 2, there are packed houses of people laughing, clapping, and being joyous together. That feeling cannot be achieved at home, no matter what.
On making films without fear
At the end of the day, you’ve got to make a film that you want to make and you believe in. Constraints have existed always. Filmmakers now have a legal department that tells them to not go down a certain path. So, there is that check and balance happening.
I don’t think there’s any fear. Creative people are not afraid. They’re not afraid to tell the stories they want to. They will choose the story they want to, to keep the environment around the release of the film to be not something that you sensationalise for no reason. We are sensitive. We’re not afraid.
On telling actors to be true to themselves
I always tell actors to be true to their self. If Ranveer Singh or Ranbir Kapoor dress in a certain way, that’s coming naturally to them. If I’m trying to be flamboyant, that’s my midlife crisis. I’m like, now I have kids, should I be wearing this fluorescent yellow jacket? I have friends who kind of check me and say this might be a bit much now. Because you start realising, hey, your kids are also looking at you and they have that expression on their face when you’re going out at night. When I was wearing a pink jacket, my daughter once told me: “You look like Peppa Pig”.
Pankaj Tripathi has just given a bonafide Rs 100 crore hit, and he’s dressed exactly the way you describe: simple, efficient and still such a rock star of an actor. Sometimes people get swept away by the world and start altering their core DNA. Now, that is their choice to make.
What do you hate being called more, KJo or Nepo?
KJo. It’s just annoying. People call it out loudly at the airport. Nepo, I’m not alone. There are lots of others.
What went wrong with the following movies: Adipurush, Kisi Ka Bhai Kisi Ki Jaan, Samrat Prithviraj, Laal Singh Chaddha?
I have seen none, barring Laal Singh Chaddha. I actually liked it.
Which superhit of yours do you think would flop today?
They would be bigger hits today.
In the next season of Koffee with Karan, if you have to invite one non-filmy guest, who will it be?
I would love to interview (Mahendra Singh) Dhoni.
If you were making a biopic, who would you cast for the following people?
Indra Nooyi: Priyanka Chopra.
Nita Ambani: Aishwarya Rai (Bachchan).
Sukesh Chandrasekhar: Anybody who’s versatile, Pankaj Tripathi.
Narendra Modi: Mr (Amitabh) Bachchan.
Rahul Gandhi: Ranbir Kapoor.
Virat Kohli: Vicky Kaushal.
If you were forced to make a movie on one of the following real-life events that The Indian Express has played a significant role in covering, which will you pick — Panama Papers, Bofors scandal, or the Emergency?
The Emergency is already being made. I’m excited to watch it.
The one feedback that hurt you the most from your audience research screenings.
Karan Johar should be a producer, not a director.
A brand or product that you endorse which you actually use.
Lenskart.
The one perk of working in Dharma that no other production house provides.
Open-door policy. Walk into anyone’s room at any point in time. No emails required.
Rank in order of truth: box-office numbers are fudged in Bollywood; most stars are cast on the basis of talent; and celebs always tweet reviews truthfully.
Numbers are fudged. As for stars, no. Box office (pull) and popularity (of stars) always equal talent. As for celebs tweeting reviews, no, we are all big fat liars.
Varun (Dhawan), Ranveer (Singh), Vicky (Kaushal), Sidharth Malhotra, Ayushmann Khurrana — who’s the next big superstar?
I want to work with all of them. I’m not making this list and getting myself into any trouble.
A filmmaker whose set you’d like to work on.
Sanjay Leela Bhansali.
If you (Karan Johar) woke up as me (Ananya Panday) what’s the first thing you would do?
I would have left two films I did.
Date, marry, kill among these characters — Rahul from Kuch Kuch Hota Hai, Rocky from Rocky Aur Rani Kii Prem Kahaani and Ayan from Ae Dil Hai Mushkil.
Marry Rocky, date Rahul. Ayan, who kept wanting love from everywhere, has to die.
Who would you give the mantle of ‘fashionista’ from the industry?
Ranveer Singh and Anushka Sharma.
The most boring Koffee with Karan episode.
It was with Richard Gere. It got very intense. He was the first Hollywood celebrity we had.
If you were to make Rocky Aur Rani Kii Prem Kahaani 35 years later, who would you cast to play the roles of Dharmendraji and Shabana Azmiji.
Shah Rukh (Khan) and Kajol.
Who is the last girl you dreamed of?
I dreamt of Rani Mukerji. She spoke to me so much about us and the past, we had a nostalgic chat at the Melbourne Film Festival. Suddenly I was imagining her and we were having coffee on some mountaintop discussing something. I was in a yellow sweater and she was in a sari.
One filmmaker you would want as part of the Dharma roster
I would love to produce a film directed by Sanjay Leela Bhansali.
If you have access to the phone of the following people, who would you send a message to (from that number) and what would you say?
Alia Bhatt: I will message Ananya Panday and ask how her love life is going.
Akshay Kumar: Ask the OMG2 producers how much money we made today.
Sunny Deol: Send a message to the whole industry and tell them “This is how it’s done”.
Katrina Kaif: Message Vicky (Kaushal) and say “come back home”.
Jaya Bachchan: Message Karan Johar and say: “You need a spanking”.
Salman Khan: I would message Shah Rukh Khan and say: “It’s just us”.
What would be more embarrassing for you — you are at a public event and no one asks you for a selfie or you get mobbed because people think you are another celebrity?
It would be better if nobody asked for a selfie.
Funniest thing your kids have said to you.
My daughter (Roohi) thought I was looking like Peppa Pig. The sweetest thing they say is, “I love you to the moon and back”.
Most underrated films you have watched.
There are a gazillion of them. Ijaazat (1987) and Ghar (1978).
Most-underrated actor.
Tanuja was an absolutely outstanding artiste.
One Gen Z habit you can beat any 18-year-old in.
Being trigger happy.
One of your movies you are embarrassed about and why?
Not embarrassed but shy when my mother was watching Lust Stories.
Which of your film’s climax would you change?
Kabhi Alvida Naa Kehna. So that they don’t end up happily.
Vishal Mishra
Professor, Department of Computer Science, Columbia University
What has changed in India in the last 20 years that you could make Rocky aur Rani?
I think I have changed. Maybe, my changes have happened through my life experiences.
I feel my gender politics in KKHH were flawed, but my gender politics with Rocky-Rani are more on point. I think that’s been my personal evolution as an individual, more than what has changed in the country. Possibly, it’s the people I’ve interacted with or the observations I’ve made that have made me change the syntax of my cinema.
Mike Hankey
Consul General, US Consulate General, Mumbai
What is the best way for Bollywood to get to the US?
When it’s happened organically, it’s worked out really well. It happened with Lagaan. In 2001, I don’t think Ashutosh (Gowarikar) or Aamir (Khan), while making that film, thought that they were making an Oscar-nominated film. Similarly, with RRR one thing led to another and everyone started talking about this massive Indian film. We all can aspire for global recognition.
I don’t know how one can particularly design it.
Jaspal Bindra
Chairman, Centrum Group
If you had the opportunity to be equally iconic in another field, what would it be?
When I was young, there were two things that fascinated me. One was cinema, and the other was fashion in cinema. Fashion, today, is such an important form of expression that if I were to be iconic, I would have been in fashion if it wasn’t film. But I’m glad that I am in film because I can incorporate my obsession for fashion within my film.
Suvir Saran
Chef, Columnist, Author
You’ve been bashed and badgered for no reason. How would you rate your emotional quotient now?
There’s a line that Mr (Yash) Chopra, who’s my mentor in so many ways, said: “Tera karam hi teri vijay hai”, meaning “Your karma is your victory.” I believe that you do what you have to in terms of what you think is good — for your relationships, your family, people in your life and the world — and good will happen. I’m not spiritual or religious, but I’m humanitarian.
Bharat Tripathi
Former Income Tax Commissioner
I enjoyed Rocky Aur Rani…I have one grudge: Why did you make such a nasty image out of Jaya Bachchan?
She has such a wonderful image on-screen and off-screen.
When I was thinking of the cast, I wanted to cast against type. She had been Mili, Guddi – that was her personality on celluloid. So sometimes it’s just nice to shake things up. It works out well.
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