‘I can’t see myself in a position where I have to ask the L-G to pick my peon… sitting in wait outside for him to sign the file’: Omar Abdullah

For a party like mine (National Conference), I don’t think we are going to accept that anything is irreversible. Ultimately, these are all laws, they are rules, they are decisions of Parliament. No decision of Parliament is sacrosanct. Tomorrow, you will have a Parliament that can revisit this. And the same is true for judgments of the court.

I mean, if I was to turn around and say that, yes, because you had a five-judge Bench that found in favour of what the government did on August 5, 2019, and this is now a closed issue, I would then have to ask myself why that wasn’t the case when previous benches of the Supreme Court found in favour of 370 and said that it wasn’t temporary. In fact, it was a permanent provision. So if at that time the BJP didn’t accept that this is a done deal… I don’t see why it should be for us.

That said, we also know that it’s definitely not going to change in the term of this government. So be it. There are other things that changed after August 5, 2019, which, when statehood is restored to J&K, need to be looked at: domicile laws, protection of land, protection of jobs.

But on land and domicile, despite the alarm, not much has changed on the ground.

No, it’s a creeping thing.

What’s the concern?

Today, as a non-resident I can’t just walk into Himachal Pradesh and buy agricultural land. There is nothing that stops me here.

Today, you have a government that is not elected but is selling all our assets. Technical bids have been received and are about to be opened for Centaur Hotel. I mean, with whose involvement? Technical bids have been received for the club in Pahalgam, for the JKTDC (Jammu and Kashmir Tourism Development Corporation) huts in Pahalgam. You are getting rid of assets without any consideration as to who they are going to. Without any involvement of the people of Jammu and Kashmir.

If elections are around the corner…these sorts of things need to be put on hold until an elected government can decide whether it wants to part with these assets or not. And they can do this because our laws are weak. I challenge this government to dare take one asset in Ladakh and auction it to a non-Ladakhi…Right from the beginning, they have been careful about protecting this whole idea of Ladakh’s status, its identity etc.

Where has the needle moved forward in five years since August 5?

The fact that they have marginalised or shrunk the space for separatist politics is an established fact. When was the last time you heard the Mirwaiz make a political speech? When you can’t even post a ‘Like’ on a Facebook sort of update/status without worrying about the police knocking on your door, that tells you about the circumstances we live in. There is hardly a journalist who hasn’t been summoned to some thana or the other.

The separatist space has shrunk. But it hasn’t disappeared. It finds new ways to manifest itself. And you need no bigger example than the recent Lok Sabha elections. The North Kashmir result (Independent MLA Engineer Rashid won from Baramulla defeating Omar Abdullah and People’s Conference leader Sajad Lone) was clear evidence that you can squeeze from here but it will pop up somewhere else and take a slightly different form. That’s the form it took in this case.

Does Engineer Rashid’s win put a question mark on the election? That it may be deferred?

I don’t know how the government would justify postponing an election mandated by the Supreme Court. Unless the Home Minister of India is willing to stand up in Parliament and tell the country and the world that, ‘Look, we messed up things in J&K so much that we are unable to conduct an Assembly election’… You have only just had a Parliament election. You have told the world how successful it was. In fact, you have gone so far as to package the North Kashmir result as a sort of success of Indian democracy.

So you have that on the one hand, and then what do you do? Go and tell the Supreme Court that well, actually we can’t (hold elections). Because then, for people like me, the first question will be, ‘Hang on, just because you have had the start of a fairly nasty campaign of attacks in Jammu, you are unable to conduct elections? And if that is the case, then what was 370 all about?’ Because one of the main justifications for August 5, 2019, was that 370 gave cover to separatist and terror organisations, and that terrorism had flourished in Kashmir because of 370.

How do you read the the sharp surge in attacks in Jammu?

My sense is that it’s basically carelessness. Pakistan has found the forces at home that back these groups and, as with all other situations where you find a vacuum, you move in to occupy it.

Having been the head of the Unified Command for six years here, I can imagine their entire focus has been on this side of the Pir Panjal. You have been so focused on containing law and order, infiltration, all the rest of it this side, that you forgot that you actually have a theatre on that side as well. There was a reason the J&K Chief Minister would have two security advisors – Corps Commander, Srinagar, and Corps Commander, Nagrota… But clearly, somebody forgot that.

As a result, these people (the militants) found the space to move in, and time to establish themselves.

Home Minister Amit Shah says the Valley security model needs to be replicated in Jammu? What are the challenges unique to Jammu?

The terrain is one part of it. The proximity to the border is another. You can’t just suddenly create an anti-terror grid; it takes time for your troops to familiarise themselves with the area. It takes time for you to establish intelligence.

And one of the big problems in J&K today, which is sort of very apparent in Jammu, is that there is almost no connect between the local population and the government. Otherwise, elected representatives and political workers are the first to know what’s happening in their area. They are the first people to inform the police that this is what they have heard… Today there is nobody.

So the lack of panchayats, the District Development Councils (DDCs) not being functional, no MLAs… all that comes into play?

It comes into play. What also comes into play is that the parties actually present on the ground have been demonised. So you are happy to deal with an Altaf (Bukhari, the Apni Party leader), a Sajad (Lone) and others who have no presence at all. There is not one worthwhile piece of feedback they can give you.

Parties that are cadre-based have people in virtually every village, but today you don’t want anything to do with (them). As far as you are concerned, we are part of the problem. Fine. So then when you need something to help you with the solution, we are not available to you.

In an elected government, you would have had MLAs, ministers, people in the area in touch with the local administration. They would have been coming into the DC’s office to get their work done, conversations would have happened and you would have known.

How did you first hear about the infiltration in Kargil? It was from people on the ground there who told their elected representatives, who then told the Army.

What do you think of the Jamaat-e-Islami saying it wants to fight elections? Altaf Bukhari seems to be the main negotiator between the government and Jamaat.

Where does Altaf get votes from otherwise? He is looking for some quid pro quo… The Jamaat has quite happily played both sides against the middle, while being very vocal in their commitment to making Jammu and Kashmir a part of Pakistan. Come elections they have also been quite happy to nudge their people to vote in select pockets. And the biggest beneficiary of this, we all know, is the PDP (Peoples Democratic Party).

The areas that are Jamaat-dominated are also areas where the PDP has traditionally drawn its maximum support from. Now, what this means for the PDP in terms of the Jamaat saying we want to contest… is something that remains to be seen. But obviously Altaf is not going to do something for nothing.

So trying to get the ban against the Jamaat lifted is, I guess, Altaf’s way of trying to make some inroads into these areas.

Is the Jamaat move, say, an attempt to really undercut the PDP?

That’s one way of looking at it. The other way is that it is bragging rights for the government of India. At the end of the day, to get the Jamaat-e-Islami to completely surrender its separatist agenda and contest elections would be one of the most significant political developments of 30-35 years… At the end of the day, we are talking about the Jamaat-e-Islami that was the political face of the Hizbul Mujahideen.

What is your one message to the NC voter in 2024?

Actually, it wouldn’t just be to the NC voter, but the voters of Jammu and Kashmir – that don’t allow your vote to be fractured. That J&K has suffered on account of fractured mandates and that the parliamentary elections showed that the party with the best chance of performing in the government is the NC… We are still the largest party by a large margin.

What do you make of the recent order transferring more powers to the Lieutenant Governor?

To me, that is the clearest indicator that you are going to have elections. Because otherwise, there was no need for this. Anyway, the LG had all the powers… You’re making it known that the concurrent list will be entirely with the LG, the Central list obviously, most of the state list… It is the clearest indicator that you’re having elections… as a Union territory.

If the NC wins, is there a possibility that the new UT Assembly may pass a resolution saying we do not accept the abrogation of Article 370?

I don’t see why not.

Even if that means a face-off with the Centre?

It will be the will of the people, a resolution passed by the Assembly. But it will not be the first one. We had the resolution calling for autonomy. So, I mean, it may not change anything on the ground, but the symbolism of it is not something that can be ignored. Which again is probably the reason the BJP is so keen to ensure we don’t have the numbers, and that they do.

So, this would be a big election issue?

It would, it would. But then, unlike the Lok Sabha elections which were more about these sort of things, the fact is that bread and butter issues are important to people. And that was obvious during the election campaign. Because while 370, land, jobs, stuff like that resonated, so did electricity, water, jobs. So, a single-point campaign where the NC says vote for us because we are going to pass a resolution against what happened on the 5th of August, 2019, is not going to fly. It will be one part of what we are going to talk about…a large part is going to have to be about economics, jobs and all the rest of it.

Your newspaper did a story yesterday about lithium mines (the exploration of which has failed to take off). That’s going to be a big part of what we are going to talk about. We have very few resources… We will decide what we want to do with them. Why should you decide?

You don’t mind being the CM of a Union Territory?

No, I am not contesting. I have made it very clear. I have been the CM of a state, the CM of the (once) most empowered state. I can’t see myself in a position where I would have to ask the LG for appointing my peon. It’s as simple as that… I am not going to sit outside the waiting room of the LG and, ask him, ‘Sir, please sign the file’.

But isn’t this part of the fight?

I am all for the fight. I also want people to know that this election is not about power for me, it’s about respect, about my own self-respect. More importantly, it’s about the self-respect of Jammu and Kashmir. And that’s what I want to fight for… I am not going to compromise on that.

Now, if there was a way in which I could keep the NC out from the elections and still do this, I would happily do that. But I can’t. Keeping the NC out means you are ceding everything to the BJP. So the NC will fight, it will fight with its every resource. We will put our strongest leaders in the field, I will lead the campaign in every constituency. The only thing I will not do is contest myself.

But your CM too, if NC wins, would have to sit in the L-G’s lobby.

They (the Centre) promised the Supreme Court that statehood will be restored. We will go back to the Supreme Court and tell them, ‘Here is the SG’s (Solicitor General’s) commitment to you that statehood will be restored. We ask you to call the Government of India and please tell them’.

Unlike Delhi and Puducherry, we have the Home Minister and Prime Minister’s commitment that statehood will be restored… The appropriate time was now. If not now, then immediately after the Assembly elections.

Who is the face of your party going into the Assembly elections?

We have it all worked out.

In what way have you changed in the five years since the abrogation of Article 370?

I don’t know… Obviously, we are all five years older. That brings its own little bit of wisdom and experience. I was always very dismissive of this mindset that age equates wisdom… Particularly when I was in (Atal Bihari) Vajpayee sahib’s government, all of 29 (years of age). But over time I have realised that you cannot replace the experience that age brings. And these five years have been particularly rough, in the way in which this government has treated us, treated J&K. The stuff done to us by governments that lead this country, which my party sacrificed so many lives for… So, if you ask me how I have changed, I am a lot more bitter, a lot more cynical. I truly am… Yes, I don’t fly off the handle quite as quickly as I used to. I am more measured in my responses… for better or for worse.

You realise it’s a very long haul?

Absolutely. And we make no secret of that. The biggest mistake I could make is to tell people that vote for us, and that the moment you do, we are going to reverse everything. That would be an outright lie… So people need to know. And I keep pointing out to them that, look, what was done to us on the 5th of August, 2019, was done to us by a party (BJP) that in 1984 was reduced to two seats in the Lok Sabha. At that point, you couldn’t have imagined they would reach a point to be able to do this to Jammu and Kashmir. But they played the long game. Why should we expect overnight gratification?

…We must play the long game to reach a point where we can reverse what was done to us. And restore what was promised to us when Jammu and Kashmir became a part of the Union of India.

What about the fact that post-Article 370 abrogation, there are fewer shutdowns, schools have had full academic years, more tourists are coming… That is an irreversible force too?

Things are calmer, there is no denying that. The sporadic protests that you saw earlier, you don’t see now. And why is that? Is it just the fear? I mean there is very little else to justify it. And I also believe that when it does happen, it’s not as intense as it used to be. But it also goes largely unreported. Now you had a massive protest on the highway the other day in Patan. Pick up any local newspaper… nothing.

A heavy-handed response to law and order did not require 5th August, 2019. Any sort of Governor’s rule or an elected government if it chose to be heavy-handed could have done this… So those who say that this is the result of 5th August are lying to people. It’s simply the result of the government choosing to use its muscle… You could just as easily have done all this earlier if you had chosen to.

After August 5 and we heard this on the street too, that there was a disenchantment with the old guard, that the state was being run by a few families like yours.

None of this (the election result) was about that. If I had fought from Srinagar, I would have won hands down.

Why didn’t you?

Well, initially I toyed with the idea of North because it seemed like a good fight. But then my colleagues suggested that Central Kashmir would be the right place to fight from as I have traditionally fought from there. Then the question became, who do we field from the North? So we spoke to Aga Ruhulla, who at that point had publicly said that he wouldn’t be fighting elections… He went back to the people in the North and had a fairly extensive consultation and said yes he could contest. Unfortunately, in the meantime, some of my colleagues got cold feet about the prospect of Aga fighting from the North for various reasons.

Having now got Aga ready to fight… if I didn’t field him, it would have been a problem. The obvious choice became Srinagar. There was a bit of pushback from the party, but I overrode that. That only left Baramulla for me. When my decision was sort of announced, Engineer Rashid was nowhere.

And I mean, this is not something I have shared, but the fact is that after my name was announced, Engineer Rashid’s brother got in touch with me and said we want to help you. Should we publicly announce our support? I said no, he is in jail and the forces I’m fighting against are the ones who have put him there. I can’t guarantee that his condition in jail won’t get worse if he announces support for me… I am leaving it to you to do what you think would be best for him.

What do the June 4 Lok Sabha results mean in J&K?

Not much in Srinagar (but) I think it has had an effect in Jammu. I mean, the invincibility of the BJP is not something that is being talked about now.