Express interview: ‘Don’t think people getting inspired by communal rhetoric,’ says Jung

I did not see the poster. I went to Jamia precisely because I thought I need to give emotional support to my students. There had been a very unpleasant experience on December 15. I thought they needed support from a former V-C. I was welcomed by the students, they requested me to speak and I spoke to them.

Do you think the poster is a comment on our times, that “things are bad”?

Bad meaning where?

Our society, politics, the country, in light of recent developments?

If you are speaking of CAA, NRC then I have said that the CAA needs some tweaking. Article 14 is very clear that India would not be granting citizenship based on caste, creed, religion or colour. So to the extent that the CAA does not include Muslims, Jews for those three countries that have been outlined, I think it’s not in conformity with the Constitution. The NRC is a different cup of tea. Because the Assam experience has caused a lot of consternation among people, across all religions. Clearly, of the 19 lakh that have been excluded of the register, 13 lakh are non-Muslims. So to expect that kind of an exercise across India is I think impossible. It’s too expensive, it will cause immense mental pressure on poor people… the process should cause least pain to citizens; in fact it should be a welcome exercise.

Do you think you should also address the women at Shaheen Bagh?

I have not been to Shaheen Bagh. Regarding the women, I think it’s a very very interesting development and to quote a part of Jawaharlal Nehru’s famous speech, I think this is the time when the soul of Indian women has found utterance. People believed that Indian women, particularly Muslim, Dalit, adivasi women, do not have a voice. It was a general accepted perception that they could be led by their men. Here, women have found a voice and I think it’s very important to understand that this is a seminal time in the history of India where the women of India are actually leading a movement… The women in Shaheen Bagh have actually become a symbol… And I think apart from the positive I think in terms of women power, I do believe it’s time somebody senior enough in the government should talk to them. The government in any country is the protector of its people. They should try to put an end to this or arrive at a consensus.

But how do you see that happening considering Shaheen Bagh has in a way been branded the “enemy” by even the Union Home Minister?

This is election time so branding Shaheen Bagh as an enemy or targeting them for a political purpose is I think part of the game… I am looking at the larger context of history… which is that these are people of India, children of India, these young women, old women need a hearing, they deserve a hearing.

Do you foresee a dialogue after the polls?

I believe that it’s not advisable for anyone to let this go on and on. I don’t think this agitation will peter out so easily. I don’t think you can tire them out to go home.

Why do you think so?

Because people are genuinely involved in this. If people feel strongly about anything, then it’s not so easy to push them out. There will be a time when the government will wish to talk to them. I mean why not? Like I said these are our people. The mother will talk to her children.

Have you seen a Delhi poll so polarised among communal lines before?

I am not aware that this is so polarised as people are saying… I don’t think the public of Delhi is really polarised. Go and speak to people on the street and I don’t think that they are getting inspired by communal rhetoric or any talk of polarising communities. I think the people of Delhi are genuinely concerned on pollution, water supply, traffic, transportation, admission of children to schools, having a couple of more universities, round the clock electricity, clean drinking water off the tap. The students are worried about jobs.

This almost sounds like a speech by CM Arvind Kejriwal, who also insists these are the issues on which polls are being fought.

I have not listened to any of his speeches. I know he talks about them and I think these are indeed the issues Delhi people are thinking about. I speak to a lot of people.

Is this why you think he has his heart in the right place?

I have worked with Kejriwal and I was witness to his initial andolan. So I think from where he was coming, his intents were to change the inadequacies of the existing society. So when I said he wanted a genuine change and that is why I used the expression. It was evident I have had disagreements with Mr Kejriwal but they were germane to our disagreeing on Constitutional issues.

The CM says things have settled down because of the SC judgment, which he says has changed the equations.

I don’t know the subtle distinction he is drawing today. I really think Arvind has understood much better the mechanics of administration and he is focusing on delivering promises he made in the earlier manifesto.

The root cause of your conflict with him was the interpretation of the Constitution?

That was the only cause.

That seems to have vanished. Is it because this L-G is not going by the book?

For that, you should interview Mr (Anil) Baijal. Perhaps I was wrong, I don’t know.

The CM often referred to you as the agent of the Centre.

That is the CM’s prerogative. I think these are political statements that are made. I can reiterate that I had no interference in Delhi government from the Centre.

But as L-G, you also represented the Union government, which was even then led by PM Narendra Modi. Did you see any sort of agenda from his government?

I did not see anything coming.

The current movement is also led by students. As a former V-C, how do you see the role of the current ones?

I am disturbed at the way the police have acted in these universities. It is not only Jamia, it’s AMU, JNU, Hyderabad. I am extremely disappointed with the way things have transpired. I also believe that the V-Cs should have been much firmer. They should have dealt with the situation differently. Students cannot be treated like criminals. The student community deserves respect and to that end the

V-Cs should own up their responsibilities.