Devendra Fadnavis: ‘Idealism in politics is good, but if you’re kicked out, who cares?’

Sandeep Singh: Foxconn and Airbus were two big projects that Maharashtra lost and it became a political issue. Have you been able to turn the tide?

If an announcement comes six days after we take charge, then it’s the fault of the government that came before us. When I was the CM, except for the first year, in all four years, Maharashtra was number one in FDI (Foreign Direct Investment). But after our government was gone, first Gujarat went ahead, then Karnataka. Now Maharashtra is number one again. We recently gave approval for work worth Rs 25,000-30,000 crore in the Cabinet. Before this, I signed MoUs worth Rs 1 lakh crore for the Pumped Storage Projects (PSP). Earlier, we approved projects worth Rs 95,000 crore. The earlier government had not conducted the Cabinet Committee and investment meetings for 18 months. There was no question of approving proposals. We conduct regular meetings.

We gave our nod to Taiwanese EV mobility major Gogoro in Sambhajinagar. It is an investment of Rs 12,000 crore. In the case of Gogoro, we sent a team to Taiwan and finalised everything. After that, a team from Telangana too went with a blank paper, asking Gogoro to list their needs. I conducted a presentation with Gogoro and compared the balance sheets of Maharashtra and Telangana and told them that they (Telangana) can promise anything but we can deliver. We have got approval from Gogoro. Foxconn is an investor in Gogoro.

Shubhangi Khapre: While one year is a short time to gauge the government’s performance, it seems politics has overtaken good governance. Do you agree that too many irritants have cropped up and it is affecting developmental work?

What you are saying is correct narrative-wise. But the fact is that we are taking decisions, running the government and there’s a governance structure in place. Politics in Maharashtra has fallen to a level that we haven’t witnessed before. The quality of our discussions and debates don’t suit a state like Maharashtra. All day long, it’s the same narrative. But I would say, it is not as bad as southern states; we aren’t after each other’s lives.

Zeeshan Shaikh: Many people are saying that Devendra Fadnavis 2.0 is angrier than his earlier version. You also made a statement: ‘Aurangzeb ki auladein’. What’s making you angry?

This has been read out of context. In our country, nobody considers Aurangzeb their leader. Even the Muslims never considered him their leader because his descendants do not live here. There are just 127 families of Turkish-Mongol origin living in India. Aurangzeb cannot be anyone’s leader here because he had ruined this land’s culture, destroyed temples and killed Hindus — he was barbaric. Suddenly there were these social media posts on Aurangzeb, people taking out a procession in his name. So, I had said, ‘How come so many children of Aurangzeb have appeared all of a sudden’. I said this was an experiment done purposely. There’s a design behind this. It was a rhetoric: Aurangzeb ki itni auladein kahan se paida hui, jo nahi thi. I tried to highlight the efforts being made to disrupt the peace that exists in our country.

Zeeshan Shaikh: If you say there’s a design behind it, then who is doing it?

I think it’s a well-thought-out conspiracy. I will not blame any political party. We see the collaboration between ex-PFI (Popular Front of India) cadre and urban Naxals. They want to disrupt communal and caste harmony. There are some social media posts that are sometimes posted under a Hindu or Muslim name. When you trace the profiles posting these things, it is found that the person does not exist. But the posts fan tension. Slowly, this conspiracy will also be uncovered.

Politics in Maharashtra has fallen to a level that we haven’t witnessed before. The quality of our discussions and debates don’t suit a state like Maharashtra. But I would say, it is not as bad as southern states; we aren’t after each other’s lives

Mohamed Thaver: According to the Supreme Court, 28 cases of hate speech have been registered in Maharashtra. Some say this is because people with cases registered against them have been given permission (to take out yatras), leading to communal tensions, and cow vigilante cases. How do you respond to that?

First of all, only Maharashtra is registering cases. Kerala, Telangana and Tamil Nadu have not registered any cases (of hate speech and communal violence). The question is, why were these processions taken out? The previous government had instructed the police to not act on cases of ‘love jihad’ and as a result there was resentment and the processions started. By and large, we controlled these processions. See, we discuss the Nashik cow vigilante episode but not the Nanded incident in which people lynched a person who was taking care of cows. I don’t want to be communal but these double standards cannot continue. If it’s in Nashik, then it’s a lynching, but if it is in Nanded, then it’s an incident. This double standard also angers society, which feels that it is pushed into a corner.

Devendra Fadnavis at The Indian Express office in Mumbai.

Sandeep Singh: While there has been a rise in instances of cow vigilantism, the issue remains that cows are being abandoned by farmers and where do they go? Maharashtra only has around 220 gaushalas as compared to significantly higher numbers in some other states. What is the state doing in this regard?

We have set up a Gau Seva Aayog in Maharashtra and are trying to increase the number of gaushalas. Our farmers are facing so much distress because their cattle wealth has reduced. Cow is such an animal that even after it stops producing milk, it is still useful. Its dung is also very useful. Therefore, we have started a natural farming mission under which we want to bring 25 lakh hectare of land under natural farming in the next four years. We will provide large-scale training and create a kit for producing organic manure. This will reduce farmer’s distress, increase their crop yield and help in a sustainable future.

I don’t want to be communal but these double standards cannot continue. If it’s in Nashik, then it’s a lynching, but if it is in Nanded, then it’s an incident. This double standard also angers society, which feels that it is being pushed into a corner

Sweety Adimulam: The district-wise Gaushala Scheme gives Rs 1 crore to NGOs. Is there no response from the NGOs due to the lack of funds for this scheme?

In my earlier five-year stint, gaushalas were established under this scheme but those weren’t enough. We have to increase the number of cattle. NGOs are helping create more gaushalas.

Devendra Fadnavis at The Indian Express office in Mumbai.

Mihir Vasavada: From a governance point of view, are tolerance levels dipping? Recently, someone tweeted a photo comparing the CM to Lord Hanuman and the Thane police arrested him.

In politics, you need faith and patience. I tell all our new corporators to develop a habit of listening to criticism. Sometimes we react after hearing criticism. We should not do it, but we are also human. But we need to be more tolerant.

Zeeshan Shaikh: In your one year in this government, how has your relationship with the CM been? Has it changed after that infamous advertisement where Mr Shinde was projected as a more popular face?

We share a good relationship. I was the CM for five years and now I’m the Deputy CM. He (Eknath Shinde) was a minister with me, and now he’s my boss. As Chief Minister, he is my leader and I have to work under him. It is firmly set in my mind. Fortunately, he never shows off that he is my leader or my boss. We have been working together with mutual respect. One advertisement will not damage it.

I was the CM for five years and now I’m the Deputy CM. He (Eknath Shinde) was a minister with me, and now he’s my boss. As Chief Minister, he is my leader and I have to work under him… We have been working together with mutual respect

Shubhangi Khapre: In the BJP, the refrain is that we are the number one party — we have 105 MLAs, they are just 40 rebels. You gave away your CM-ship but we are seeing a power tussle for the next elections. Many feel that the resolution in Kalyan on Shrikant Shinde was an attack on him. With skirmishes among local leaders from the BJP and Shiv Sena at the cadre level, how can you face elections together?

It’s not about individual dynamics. When we work in an organisation, there are intra-group dynamics too. Not everyone agrees all the time. We are two separate parties. My party workers will think that we are a bigger party, so we should get a bigger share. An ordinary worker doesn’t think that if we need to run a government, we must sacrifice something. He thinks my leader should be stronger. I totally believe that we can share seats together comfortably.

Shubhangi Khapre: You’ll contest as two separate parties or on the BJP symbol?

We will fight on separate symbols.

Alok Deshpande: Under whose leadership will the elections be fought? Also, if the MVA (Maha Vikas Aghadi) stays together, what are your chances?

In our party, it is decided by our parliamentary board but whoever is the sitting chief minister, he is the leader. Ultimately, when the government is facing elections the head of that government is the leader.

The government in power has a bond. These people (MVA partners) aren’t used to being in the Opposition. Uddhavji has a style. Congress thinks it should have a bigger role. One doesn’t know what will happen to them in the one-and-a-half years that are left.

Devendra Pandey: You went with Ajit Pawar and then with Eknath Shinde. Is everything fair in politics, love and war?

Everything is fair in love and war but in politics everything is not always fair. We want to do ethical politics but I can’t promise that I do ethical politics 100 per cent. We have to compromise sometimes. I do too. Idealism is good, but if you’re kicked out, who cares? We had to make certain decisions. If Uddhavji hadn’t behaved badly, our alliance would have continued. People chose us. If after that, he behaved like this… I’m not a saint, I’m a politician who is ethical. So once I went with Ajit Pawar and then I went with Shindeji. With Shindeji, I think it is very natural. As far as politics is concerned, we cannot go with ideologies of Congress, AIMIM (All India Majlis-E-Ittehadul Muslimeen), Muslim League, not even as a compromise.

Mohamed Thaver: When the accused in the Bilkis Bano case were welcomed on their release, you were among the few BJP leaders who said what happened was wrong. Is it difficult when you don’t agree with the party line?

Nobody in my party questioned me. I said what I thought.

SWEETY ADIMULAM: What’s your take on the comments made on the Thackerays by Nitesh Rane?

In politics, only an action has a reaction. Sanjay Raut makes derogatory remarks everyday. Our president didn’t think he was big enough to warrant a response from him but we did need to react so that our workers were not demotivated. So our president nominated Nitesh Rane to respond — the day Raut stops his comments, Nitesh Rane will stop too.

Vallabh Ozarkar: Now you’ve formed the government with Shinde, but is the voter shifting towards him?

The voter is shifting towards Shindeji. He is assertive and decisive. At first, people were apprehensive about his conduct but now they see him travel to different districts and talk to people.

Vallabh Ozarkar: Do people’s sympathies lie with Uddhav Thackeray?

How has he been wronged? If anyone has been wronged, it’s me. His loyal base might be sympathetic towards him for sometime but that’s fading slowly too. Why should he get sympathy? He did not meet his workers or MLAs, he was inaccessible. In our politics, weak politicians do get sympathy but not for long.

Shubhangi Khapre: How do you see the Opposition’s attempt to come together in the Patna meeting? It might send a message to Maharashtra that they’re uniting and it will alter the caste combination.

It’s not very different from what they did in 2019. Caste is more in the minds of politicians than it is in the minds of people. I was elected five times. If people only thought of caste, they wouldn’t have chosen me. I won’t deny that caste has a role to play in politics but those who do the arithmetic are inaccurate. The BJP has a committed vote share in every caste today.

Zeeshan Shaikh: Your name and family were recently linked to a particular issue. Could you tell us about the investigation?

The investigation and chargesheet are complete. Whether there was a political conspiracy or not, I’ll have to give a calibrated answer. The person who tried to blackmail me and whom we caught, had messages and audio clips with big politicians in the Opposition. He has recorded calls with politicians over five years but I have no direct evidence that those politicians told him to do something. What’s important is to point out what happened. I gave a statement on this in the House.

Sadaf Modak: Karnataka showed that elections can’t be fought on the plank of Hindutva alone. Are there any lessons there?

Who says we fought only on Hindutva? It’s our commitment, not our core plank. The country is historically secular. The essence of Hindutva is tolerance. We’ve seen continuous civilisations because we’ve been tolerant. When people talk about appeasement, we respond. Then people accuse us of talking about Hindutva.

Shubhangi Khapre: When it comes to BJP-RSS, Muslims and minorities don’t feel a sense of belonging with the BJP. What is the party doing to counter that?

We want to end appeasement politics. When we say we don’t want it, the person who this policy was directed at will obviously feel bad. If for 70 years the Congress and pseudo-secular parties cared so much about minorities, they wouldn’t be in the state that they are. They were treated merely as vote bank.

Anant Goenka: Will the Assembly elections take place before or after the Lok Sabha elections?

Only the Supreme Court can tell. There is a status quo for all elections. We wanted the Nagar Palika elections and our workers would have been engaged, they are all in waiting.

Sandeep Singh: Preparations for the Lok Sabha elections have begun. What is the target you’ve given yourself for BJP in Maharashtra?

We want more seats than last time.

We will fight in coalition with Shindeji. We’ve done it twice, so a third time is possible too.

Alok Deshpande: Will you contest Lok Sabha elections and from where?

If I fight, I’ll fight from Nagpur. But that seat isn’t vacant right now. (Nitin) Gadkariji is from Nagpur, so I won’t fight the Lok Sabha elections.