Interview VC McGill University, Canada | ‘If we keep losing our young minds because they don’t see a good future, that’s not a good thing’
With thousands of Indian youths, nurturing Canadian dreams, trying hard to crack the American code every year, Saini tells The Indian Express the risks of brain drain, the need to strengthen India's higher education system and good old memories of PAU.
Hargurdeep Singh Saini, better known as Deep Saini, the newly appointed vice-chancellor of McGill University, Canada
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In 1978, a 23-year-old from Nawanshahr, Punjab, decided to pursue PhD in plant physiology and moved to Australia after graduating from Punjab Agricultural University (PAU), Ludhiana. Fast forward to 2023, Hargurdeep Singh Saini, better known as Deep Saini, now 68, created history of sorts last week after taking over as principal and vice-chancellor of McGill University, Montreal. He is the first person of Indian origin to head the 202-year-old university in Canada, ranked 31 in the world and number 1 in Canada in the QS Rankings 2023. Earlier he also served as V-C of Dalhousie University, Canada and University of Canberra, Australia.
With thousands of youths from India, nurturing Canadian dreams, trying hard to crack the American code every year, Saini tells The Indian Express the risks of brain drain, the need to strengthen India’s higher education system and good old memories of PAU.
You are the first person of Indian origin to head Canada’s top university. How does it feel?
I am a Canadian of Indian origin. India is my mother and Canada is my adopted home. My Indian roots are an aspect of my life that’s always there but not something that is discussed often. I do my job as any other Canadian citizen. But I am aware that there are people who take inspiration from the fact that an Indian is heading Canada’s top university. I know I have a responsibility to act in a certain way so that they continue to be inspired. I am proud of how far I have come but it is not just my own achievement. I have had the experience of working with amazing people.
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“I am a Canadian of Indian origin. India is my mother and Canada is my adopted home. My Indian roots are an aspect of my life and not something that is discussed often. I do my job as any other Canadian citizen.”
You moved to Australia when not many people used to but now scores of youths, particularly from Punjab, are migrating to Canada, the UK. Why do you think they are migrating now?
In India, particularly Punjab, students go abroad for two reasons: quality education and better quality of life. The second reason is concerning and not a good sign for any country. For instance, I went to Australia for my PhD as I was getting the opportunity to work with one of the top scientists in my field (Prof D Aspinall). It is a global phenomenon that people move to different countries for better education. Now, more Indians can afford to go abroad for studies and Canada is a very attractive destination. It offers quality education, and is an open society with great opportunities to settle down.
But if young people leave the country in hope of a better quality of life, it means they are not getting good opportunities here. That is concerning as when we say ‘better life’, it includes several things such as a safer country with entrenched rule of law, focus on justice, security, clean environment etc. India has to pay attention to this. If we keep losing our young minds because they don’t see a good future, that’s not a good thing for any country. At one point of time, Punjab was a jewel in the Indian crown but I am not sure if that’s the case anymore.
Why do you think that is not the case anymore?
Since I have stayed away from Punjab for a very long time, I cannot comment on the exact reason but when so many young people leave, it is surely a symptom of an underline problem. We know for sure that drug menace is one of the reasons. Drugs have been in society for thousands of years but there is a threshold. When things cross that threshold, it becomes a societal problem.
Drug issues are there in every country, including those with draconian laws. Even in some parts of Canada, drugs are an issue. People should be mindful that Canada is a great country but we are not perfect, we have our own problems.
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How are university campuses in India different from Canada?
Different universities in Canada have different cultures and ambience depending on size and nature of the university. Social conditions are very different between India and Canada. In Canada, bigger universities such as McGill, have a very rich learning ambience. There is a huge sense of pride among McGill alumni, and people in Montreal associate with the varsity very strongly. Often ambience on campus is a reflection of the society people live in. So I won’t compare, as both India and Canada have unique environments on their campuses. Even Canada and the US are quite different even though the world may see us as almost the same.
Where do you think Indian higher education system lacks?
There is a great diversity of institutions in India. There’s always a difference in the quality and nature of education among different institutions in all countries, including Canada. For instance, you have globally renowned universities such as McGill or the University of Toronto but then you have smaller universities that play a more local role. But the difference between these major institutions and others is not as great in Canada as in India. In Canada, you can go to almost any university and get a good quality education, but in India the disparity between top institutions (IITs) and the lower ones is huge. In India, quality control at the bottom is not up to the mark.
India has a long tradition of higher education, we were among the first countries in the world to have a university but we didn’t build on it after that. India still does not have any university that is among the top 100 in the world (QS or Times Higher Education Rankings).
While India hasn’t focused on the quality aspect of education, it doesn’t mean quality isn’t there at all. There are great universities in India but they need to lift their performance in a much more purposeful manner. Some private universities such as OP Jindal Global University, Manipal University etc have been making great strides but India needs to be more strategic about developing education. The focus has been more on quantity than quality. Now when quantity has been built, the focus on quality needs to sharpen.
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How do you see politics as a factor in universities in India?
In India, the learning environment is slightly better in private universities as they have less political strife but some government universities have too much politics on their campuses, which detracts from the main academic purpose of the university. Politics does play a part in the holistic development of a student but there has to be a balanced dose of it. India has a long tradition of political activity on campus, for example, colleges and universities were very much involved in India’s freedom struggle. The positive side of it is that students in India are politically very conscious but then in some cases, its scope has become rather destructive than constructive.
For instance, student union elections in some universities become all-consuming and even turn violent, which compromises the learning environment. Canada has student unions; in fact they play a stronger role in a student’s life than those in India. For instance a part of the fees goes to them and with that budget, which often amounts to millions of dollars, they provide a range of services to the student body. They are also politically active, but at a level where there is a balance between education and politics.
Any collaboration in the pipeline with institutions in India?
During my tenure as V-C of University of Canberra and Dalhousie University, I led delegations to several Indian institutions, and we collaborated on several areas, including agriculture related projects. McGill University is one of the world’s most comprehensive universities, and we are always open to partnerships around the world. I intend to bring a delegation to India, perhaps this autumn. Agriculture is one of the major areas we would like to explore. I am also in touch with Shastri Indo-Canadian Institute, Delhi, which was founded to promote scholarly activities between both countries.
The Indian government has recently allowed foreign universities to open campuses here. Your comments.
Yes, we are aware of that and we will keep our eyes and ears open on further developments but right now, McGill does not have any specific plans.
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After living in Canada and Australia for over 45 years, what place does Punjab and PAU hold in your life?
PAU is where the foundation of my career was laid. I did both my graduation and postgraduation in botany from PAU. It has seen both good and bad times, often due to political turbulence in Punjab, but the unique culture on the campus still remains and it continues to be a formidable institution. We had fantastic professors and PAU always had a great role to play in India’s agriculture scene.
I belong to Pathlawa village in Nawanshahr district and I visited India often to meet my family. My mother passed away in 2009 and my father in 2013 and my visits to India gradually decreased when my brother also moved to Toronto. I visit the country primarily for work now.
But the connection is still there. I am now a Canadian citizen but I miss the sights and fragrance of Punjab. I still remember the day I had left Punjab- March 16, 1978. Punjab has a tradition of ‘Chardi Kala’ which is spread across the world. I feel proud when I relate to it.
After heading three world-renowned universities, what according to you still makes PAU unique?
During those days, PAU had more professors/faculty than students. Almost everybody lived on campus. It created a very close knit family-like environment. PAU has a rich social and educational environment and this combination is what makes the campus unique. PAU has seen great leaders like (former V-C) late Dr MS Randhawa, a distinguished horticulturist who had put a lot of emphasis on physical spaces in the varsity and ensured there was ample greenery all around, which created a special learning environment for us then.
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What remains your most beautiful memory of PAU?
I met my wife Rani at PAU. She was in the College of Home Science and two years my junior. We both wrote poetry, we met at a meeting of the young poets association of the university. She has been my constant support and has made this journey wonderful.
Divya Goyal is a Principal Correspondent with The Indian Express, based in Punjab.
Her interest lies in exploring both news and feature stories, with an effort to reflect human interest at the heart of each piece. She writes on gender issues, education, politics, Sikh diaspora, heritage, the Partition among other subjects. She has also extensively covered issues of minority communities in Pakistan and Afghanistan. She also explores the legacy of India's partition and distinct stories from both West and East Punjab.
She is a gold medalist from the Indian Institute of Mass Communication (IIMC), Delhi, the most revered government institute for media studies in India, from where she pursued English Journalism (Print). Her research work on “Role of micro-blogging platform Twitter in content generation in newspapers” had won accolades at IIMC.
She had started her career in print journalism with Hindustan Times before switching to The Indian Express in 2012.
Her investigative report in 2019 on gender disparity while treating women drug addicts in Punjab won her the Laadli Media Award for Gender Sensitivity in 2020. She won another Laadli for her ground report on the struggle of two girls who ride a boat to reach their school in the border village of Punjab.
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